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Rudder or outboard motor

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Rudder or outboard motor

Postby 361099682 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:42 pm

Hello, Macgregor-ers

Two weeks ago I managed to leave, and return to, the dock for the first time. Except one slip neighbour saying "oh my god" loudly, everything went ok; but I quickly learned more about my 26S. When it was going forward, it could turn left and right. Problem began when it was moving in reverse, it could only go either straight or to the left, but not to the right.

The current set up is that the outboard motor is fixed pointing straight to the back. For turning, I would use only the tiller/rudder. Is this set up incorrect?

Kenneth on Blessed
Last edited by 361099682 on Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rudder or outboard motor

Postby mastreb » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:59 pm

All outboards will pull one direction in reverse due to torque effects of rotating in only one direction, and it sounds like you just don't have bite with your rudders at low speed to overcome that for the direction that you cannot steer to. The only real solution is to setup the outboard to steer with the rudders. How large is the outboard in hp?
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Re: Rudder or outboard motor

Postby 361099682 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:05 pm

Hello mastreb, it got 9.9hp
mastreb wrote:All outboards will pull one direction in reverse due to torque effects of rotating in only one direction, and it sounds like you just don't have bite with your rudders at low speed to overcome that for the direction that you cannot steer to. The only real solution is to setup the outboard to steer with the rudders. How large is the outboard in hp?
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Re: Rudder or outboard motor

Postby mastreb » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:37 pm

Hi Kenneth,

That's the biggest motor that makes sense on a 26S--I was worried that you might just be under-powered, but that doesn't look to be the case. You might look at upgrading to an aftermarket rudder. The cheapest solution at the moment is to get a nice long boat hook and learn to use it--they're invaluable for getting in and out of slips cleanly in my opinion. You might also check the condition of your prop, and ask for some input from other 26S owners on how that boat behaves in reverse with its offset engine well.

Matt
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Re: Rudder or outboard motor

Postby 361099682 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:22 am

thank you, Matt. i agree about the value of having a long boat hook; my buddy crew did use it at the bow at the time and he was busy. i think i shall get one more for the back/myself. the prop's condition is excellent.
mastreb wrote:Hi Kenneth,

That's the biggest motor that makes sense on a 26S--I was worried that you might just be under-powered, but that doesn't look to be the case. You might look at upgrading to an aftermarket rudder. The cheapest solution at the moment is to get a nice long boat hook and learn to use it--they're invaluable for getting in and out of slips cleanly in my opinion. You might also check the condition of your prop, and ask for some input from other 26S owners on how that boat behaves in reverse with its offset engine well.

Matt
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Re: Rudder or outboard motor

Postby usererror » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:30 am

I experienced something similar with my new to me 22.

Going in reverse with my 6HP outboard the tiller also does not quite want to steer, so when in reverse I steer with the outboard itself. When going forward with the motor, I feel steering with the tiller works fine when the motor is in the 'straight' position.

When you mentioned getting an aftermarket rudder do you mean one that is wider, as in it sticks out further from the stern past the motor?

Thank you.
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Re: Rudder or outboard motor

Postby grady » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:48 am

When docking I always have centerboard down as far as possible rudder up. With that configuration you can spin the boat around the center board. You can also go about 5 kts or so in reverse with no issues.
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Re: Rudder or outboard motor

Postby mastreb » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:35 pm

I actually don't know much about the 26s rudder, but in general a wider rudder will have more bite at low speed. That said, nothing replaces steering with the outboard for positive control in reverse. if you're on a fixed mount, going to a steerable mount will be your cheapest and most effecting change.
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Re: Rudder or outboard motor

Postby markh1f » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:50 pm

Kenneth,

One other thing to try would be giving it a little gas once your in reverse to get the boat moving then go to neutral and steer with the rudder without the motor pulling you one way or the other. I have found that to be effective.

Good luck,
Mark
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Re: Rudder or outboard motor

Postby RussMT » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:10 pm

Sumner has come up with the perfect outboard steering solution.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... de-18.html

It's brilliant, but he is a fabrication master.
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Re: Rudder or outboard motor

Postby Sumner » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:24 pm

RussMT wrote:Sumner has come up with the perfect outboard steering solution.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... -18.html...


Thanks for the compliment, but I kind of just throw this stuff together and it isn't perfect. The one in the link is the old one for the Honda. We have a Tohatsu now and making a tiller....

Image

....for it is even easier...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-26.html

...and it is stronger than the Honda since it isn't on the engine cover.

Also it isn't that hard to make a connector that goes between the rudder tiller and the outboard tiller in seconds...

Image

...and makes maneuvering the boat in tight quarters a snap. Here is that mod.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-29.html

....Ruth loves it and....

Image

... the extensions on the throttle and gearshift. Eventually I'd like to use Morse Cables to control the throttle and gearshift from levers right next to her that didn't move like the ones do that are attached to the outboard now.

Here are 3 youtube videos for the tiller connector...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UYc2ZHehS8&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COMAPYd5WTg&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sWbLBGc1Is&NR=1

c ya,

Sum

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Re: Rudder or outboard motor

Postby 361099682 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:17 pm

thank you, Mark. i did that and it went better, except for the first time, for i gave it too much and my neighour was worried. :?
markh1f wrote:Kenneth,

One other thing to try would be giving it a little gas once your in reverse to get the boat moving then go to neutral and steer with the rudder without the motor pulling you one way or the other. I have found that to be effective.

Good luck,
Mark
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