Battery charging.

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warren631
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Battery charging.

Post by warren631 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:09 pm

I have a 2006 Yamaha T8ELH 8hp 4 stroke with electric start. Dumb question from a newbie sailor: does this outboard charge the battery when its running? It didn't say anything about battery charging in the OB manual. The electrons just flow backwards back into the battery? The DC electric motor starter just becomes a DC generator?

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Re: Battery charging.

Post by Spector » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:27 pm

That may require the optional rectifier/regulator. New ones do.

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grady
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Re: Battery charging.

Post by grady » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:35 pm

warren631 wrote:I have a 2006 Yamaha T8ELH 8hp 4 stroke with electric start. Dumb question from a newbie sailor: does this outboard charge the battery when its running? It didn't say anything about battery charging in the OB manual. The electrons just flow backwards back into the battery? The DC electric motor starter just becomes a DC generator?
The power comes from the magneto that powers the ignition system. They install on oversized magneto to charge the battery. Starter/Generators do not work well on piston engines due to no/low output at lower RPM's.

Go to page 11. It states with a rectifier regulator you can hook up to a battery.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/serv ... 6_1409.pdf

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Re: Battery charging.

Post by Plebian » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:22 pm

Sufficient to charge the battery and maybe a cellphone, but not much else. They don't put much more out than a solar trickle charger.

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seahouse
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Re: Battery charging.

Post by seahouse » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:00 am

You should easily be able to tell by simple inspection if the starter becomes a generator by looking for an overrun clutch or a disengaging method from the starter motor, such as a gear disengagement from the flywheel. If it somehow disconnects, then obviously it can't be charging the battery.

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Re: Battery charging.

Post by Plebian » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:19 am

seahouse wrote:You should easily be able to tell by simple inspection if the starter becomes a generator by looking for an overrun clutch or a disengaging method from the starter motor, such as a gear disengagement from the flywheel. If it somehow disconnects, then obviously it can't be charging the battery.
Small engines usually don't work like car engines for charging, usually the alternator is under the flywheel and works off the timing magneto and the starter just disengages after the start. The OP's works like that; http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamah ... parts.html

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Re: Battery charging.

Post by grady » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:16 am

Plebian wrote:Sufficient to charge the battery and maybe a cellphone, but not much else. They don't put much more out than a solar trickle charger.
Some have a high output magneto like mine but it is a T9.9ELRS. But even with that it only produces about 10A of current. Enough to to keep it charged but not enough to charge a low battery in a couple of hours. Looking at 7+ hours to charge a low battery.

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warren631
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Re: Battery charging.

Post by warren631 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:35 am

How do I know if I have a 'Rectifier Regulator'? The manual states: 'CAUTION-A battery CANNOT be connected to models that do not have a rectifier or Rectifier Regulator'. Since I have electric start and therefore a battery CAN be connected, can I assume I must have the 'Rectifier Regulator'? Or should that statement be: 'CAUTION-A battery SHOULD NOT be connected to models that do not have a rectifier or Rectifier Regulator'?

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grady
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Re: Battery charging.

Post by grady » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:01 pm

warren631 wrote:How do I know if I have a 'Rectifier Regulator'? The manual states: 'CAUTION-A battery CANNOT be connected to models that do not have a rectifier or Rectifier Regulator'. Since I have electric start and therefore a battery CAN be connected, can I assume I must have the 'Rectifier Regulator'? Or should that statement be: 'CAUTION-A battery SHOULD NOT be connected to models that do not have a rectifier or Rectifier Regulator'?
Since it is electric start you should have it.

http://www.simyamaha.com/Yamaha_Parts_D ... LH_-_2007)

Look to see if your outboard has item 13

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Re: Battery charging.

Post by DaveB » Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:04 pm

You have electric start that requires a 12 volt battery, just hookup a lead from battery to your low power dc units. Add additional battery if your elect. demands require. You also can add a Cig. lighter off your battery, plug in a 50watt AC/DC converter to plug in your AC appliance.
This is just low voltage stuff and anything higher than a 3amp draw DC will require diodes/ protection for batteries, and AC if using a converter DC12volt to AC115 volt.(most 75dc amp converters to AC don't need diodes).
A 75 watt DC to AC cigarette plug powers my Edgestar 65 quart refig.(Can go down to minus 8 below zero) Just to give you what it can do.
I only use DC when I don't have AC. Frig. operates on both AC/DC.
Dave
warren631 wrote:I have a 2006 Yamaha T8ELH 8hp 4 stroke with electric start. Dumb question from a newbie sailor: does this outboard charge the battery when its running? It didn't say anything about battery charging in the OB manual. The electrons just flow backwards back into the battery? The DC electric motor starter just becomes a DC generator?

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seahouse
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Re: Battery charging.

Post by seahouse » Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:02 am

Plebian wrote:
seahouse wrote:You should easily be able to tell by simple inspection if the starter becomes a generator by looking for an overrun clutch or a disengaging method from the starter motor, such as a gear disengagement from the flywheel. If it somehow disconnects, then obviously it can't be charging the battery.
Small engines usually don't work like car engines for charging, usually the alternator is under the flywheel and works off the timing magneto and the starter just disengages after the start. The OP's works like that; http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamah ... parts.html

Car engines don't work like that either. Starter-generators are found on small engines, such as lawn tractors (like a Kohler engine), but are rare in car engines. My comment applies to pretty well any engine type that you want to determine has, or doesn't have, a starter-generator arrangement, which was to Warren's original question.

The link to the motor generator components shows 3 coils working from the flywheel. The pulse coil provides the signal for ignition timing, the charge coil for the spark plug, and the lighting coil is what provides for the battery charging, as Grady mentionded above.

The output of the lighting coil to charge the battery cannot be very high on a lower horsepower motor partly because it could draw so much power that there will not be a sufficient portion left to drive the rest of the motor components, including the prop!

- B. :wink:

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Re: Battery charging.

Post by Curious Sailor » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:31 pm

I'm pretty sure if it's an electric start you will have capability to charge the batteries when running. Now I know for a fact I don't have that with a Yamaha 9.9 pull start.

Do any of you guys know of a workaround for this? I'm at a cross roads as to whether I should trade up to an electric start or maybe just get a small generator....

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Sumner
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Re: Battery charging.

Post by Sumner » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:45 pm

Curious Sailor wrote:...Do any of you guys know of a workaround for this? I'm at a cross roads as to whether I should trade up to an electric start or maybe just get a small generator....
Image

Solar, solar, solar..... :)

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... de-33.html

Sumner

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1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

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Re: Battery charging.

Post by Curious Sailor » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:05 pm

Sumner that is awesome!!!! It looks like an expensive set up though... How much power are you getting?

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Sumner
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Re: Battery charging.

Post by Sumner » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:05 pm

Curious Sailor wrote:Sumner that is awesome!!!! It looks like an expensive set up though... How much power are you getting?
560 watts of panel theoretical power :) . Since the panels are never a true 90% to the sun they aren't going to produce that. I have two controller that are both MPPT so trying to get the max I can.

I added 360 watts to the 200 I had hoping to try running the boat some on a 24 volt trolling motor but really didn't get a chance to experiment with that like I wanted to.

Image

Two 60 watt panes can be switched between the two 6 volt house batteries or the two 12 volt batteries for the trolling motor with a 6 pole 2 position switch.

200 watts is dedicated to the house bank and 240 watts dedicated to the 24 volt trolling motor bank with the other 120 switched to one or the other (the two outboard panels).

I can throw two switches and convert the two 12 volt trolling motor batteries into a parallel 12 volt bank or a serial 24 volt bank. When they are a 12 volt bank they can be used also as a house bank. The wiring got complicated to to this but it works well and just requires 2 switches to be thrown one way or the other.

I didn't try using...

Image

...the trolling motor much but was very glad to have all the panels on the Bahama trip. I had all the elect. I needed without ever having to run the outboard or the 12 volt gen-set for power, even during some extended cloudy periods and I run a 63 quart fridge, lots of computer time and CPAP machine and other items.

Image

All the panels over the cockpit can swing out of the way in seconds. Some more on it here....

http://1fatgmc.com/boat/mac-1/mac-outsi ... age-1.html

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============================

1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

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