Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

A forum for discussing issues relating to trailers and towing MacGregor sailboats.
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Russ
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by Russ »

BOAT wrote:Ray, If I were towing 'boat' on curvy National Forest roads a lot I would probably want another axle too but I would think for all the freeway miles these trailers have already racked up over the past 20 years it seems pretty evident no failures are going to occur.

Remember, almost every boat made was shipped from Costa Mesa to far flung places all over America towed on that trailer! All the trailers out east already have 3000 miles on them!

That's a pretty good testing program. I just don't want to scare the new people into thinking their stock trailers are not up to the task.
Good points. The stock trailer works fine. For most people a dual axle isn't needed or worth the expense.

I see it as driving a Dodge Neon or a Lexus. Both will get you there safely, but which is more comfortable.

Hopefully the OP isn't confused about his trailer purchase.

--Russ
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Starscream
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by Starscream »

Yes, OP is confused, but it's a normal condition.

I strongly believe in the added safety of the dual axle. When I bought the boat four or five years ago I towed it from Hamilton to Montreal on the original single axle trailer. I found out quickly that coming down hills things got squirrely at anything over 105km/hr. Then I had a blowout on a flat stretch at about 100km/hr. That really wasn't as bad as I thought it would be: just some vibration and thrashing sounds, but no problem to slowly bring it to a stop. The real problem with the single axle was doing the next 150km with no spare, waiting for the other tire (that I dragged over the curb at a Tim Hortons) to blow out and leave me up the creek with a boat but no paddle.

The two axles made it easy to forget that the trailer was back there: ultra stable at any speed. Less worried about a blowout. The peace of mind is priceless. That's what's driving the decision to get a new trailer: I tow long distances with my family in the truck and want the most security possible. The current trailer is not in bad condition, but I do have a tie-wrap holding on one of the front bunks where the bolt sheared off on the last recovery, plus surge brakes on the front axles only--illegal in many places, plus original wiring, original winch, some rust starting to show, and a nameplate rating of 3,500 lbs on the trailer that will eventually get me a ticket or possibly impounded if I ever get weighed since I must be well over 4k lbs.

I had to make an emergency stop a couple of weeks ago on the highway...like full brakes, and looking for an alternate route around the stopped vehicles ahead. The trailer tires locked up before the truck tires, and the whole thing came to a safe and straight stop. I'll never know, but I suspect that in those conditions the second axle helps keep things straight, and would be even better if the second axle had brakes.

I hear all the back-and forth and much appreciate the feedback. To be honest I read pretty much every post ever put up on this forum, but don't post a whole heck of a lot. I think that dual 3500 lb axles might be the way to go. I hear what Mastreb says (and honestly I think that his contributions to this forum are priceless and sorry to see him go) but I suspect that a trailer mustn't always be loaded up to its rated max in order to function properly. Right now, I have dual 3500 lb axles on the stock trailer and I have no problems with bounce or tire wear. Actually, I am still running on that original tire that I pulled over that Tim Horton's curb...probably has 3,000 km on it since then or more.

I agree that the price is a bit high, but without my truck modifications it's $4,250 CDN and it will be custom built the way I want it. If I buy a trailer from Florida for $3,500 US, with the exchange and freight it will likely be more expensive.

The thing that IS bothering me is the steel / primer / epoxy paint construction. Yes I have only ever launched in fresh water, but I will eventually do a Bahamas trip with my sons so a very occasional saltwater dunking is in the cards...maybe 5 or 10 years from now but still...
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by raycarlson »

All true about actual failure statistics, but there does seem to be a pretty consistent trend in that some how between shipping weight of newly purchased boat and what that same boat weighs say two years later. They seem to steadily gain weight as they age. And towing at max gtw or even exceeding it makes me uneasy. My big dodge diesel has a 16,000 pound gvw but you'd never catch me barreling down the freeway at 70mph with that much weight. I feel near capacity towing my 5000# M, and then I only tow at 60mph unless passing someone. But my main point was that for anyone considering duals, was that I've never heard of or experienced a bouncy rough ride with 8400# axle capacity and never had any maneuvering difficulties, but I am maneuvering with a 7000# truck. My axles don't bend, and at somewhere near 25,000 miles and six years of age , my tires are perfectly evenly worn across tread, and will easily last another 6 years. They are D's and I do run them at 45psi since they are way under loaded instead of the max 65psi rated pressure. Which being radial tires tires seems to really contribute to the smoothness when towing.
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BOAT
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by BOAT »

I did not know there were M boats out there that were 5000 pounds. Wow! I don't think 'boat' weighs even half that much? I dunno. 'boat' feels really light behind my Sprinter - I really do not notice 'boat' behind the van except when I get to stop signs because the surge brakes make a bump sound when I take off from a dead stop. Going up the very steep hill to my house is the only time I really notice it because it's so steep the van will downshift.

MY ideal custom trailer feature would be a wet bar.
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by Hardcrab »

Getting away from the single/dual axles somewhat, I'd make sure the new trailer guys make the winch post a little bit higher than stock to help eliminate the Mac bump after loading.
I know the current winch post layout makes the winch pull the strap/boat at a downward angle rather than a forward angle (or better yet, even slightly upwards angle) into the chock.
Duh! No wonder a Mac bump is needed if the winch pulls the bow harder down into the bunks while it's trying to pull it into the chock.
There are mods here to make it pull slightlyupwards, and that seems to work fine, so just have them build it higher first.

As far as the protective finish, if not galvinized (first choice for steel), I'd give a very strong look to a product called POR 15.
Google it and see if it's something you'd like to do for your trailer.

I am currently using the product, going on my third year, on my steel drawbar(aluminum trailer) around the Pacific Ocean and report perfect results with zero evident rust so far. I did follow the instructions to the letter.
Knock on wood.

One more note.
As far as the bunks go.
If you look down in the bilges, you might notice some thicker areas of fiberglass build up in the hull for no apparent reason. These areas of extra hull thickness are where the trailer bunks carry the boat. In other words, the trailer and boat are designed for each other from the git go. Adding any extra bunking can do no harm, but do make sure you place the new bunks to take advantage of the hull design. Mike inmon from the factory informed me of these facts a few years ago when I bought my new aluminum trailer there.

He also had the opinion that, yes, the torsion axle was loaded with boat weight as a cross member would be, and no, it should not be as heavily loaded in his opinion. He advised to raise the other bunks to take some load off the axle. I did that, and I plan to go even further by spacing the axle downwards with shims between the axle and frame rails to fully unload it,(for test purposes only, as they say) to see what it looks like and go from there. Just sitting on the trailer, I have the dreaded negative camber, and I don't think I'm that heavily loaded.

Good luck.
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RobertB
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by RobertB »

Where are these thick areas? The trailer load point is under the ballast tank. How can you see this?
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BOAT
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by BOAT »

Hardcrab wrote:
One more note.
As far as the bunks go.
If you look down in the bilges, you might notice some thicker areas of fiberglass build up in the hull for no apparent reason. These areas of extra hull thickness are where the trailer bunks carry the boat. In other words, the trailer and boat are designed for each other from the git go. Adding any extra bunking can do no harm, but do make sure you place the new bunks to take advantage of the hull design. Mike inmon from the factory informed me of these facts a few years ago when I bought my new aluminum trailer there.
I KNEW IT! I told people here a while ago that I had these really big thick fiberglass mounds almost a foot wide that looked like 'planks' or really wide 'ribs' or something built into the inside of the hull on 'boat' and that the "rib/planks" were right at the spot where the trailer bunks are! No one believed me so I sent out a picture of them! They were really obvious and large in the picture! No one could explain them but I assumed they were for the trailer.

That is why I don't want to move my bunks.
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Neo
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by Neo »

BOAT wrote:
Hardcrab wrote:I KNEW IT! I told people here a while ago that I had these really big thick fiberglass mounds almost a foot wide that looked like 'planks' or really wide 'ribs' or something built into the inside of the hull on 'boat' and that the "rib/planks" were right at the spot where the trailer bunks are! No one believed me so I sent out a picture of them! They were really obvious and large in the picture! No one could explain them but I assumed they were for the trailer.
Hi BOAT,

This is an old thread I know (with lots of useful information to a man considering restoring/rebuilding his trailer) but could you please re-post that picture?

Thanks.
Neo
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by BOAT »

I gotta go looking for it.
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by Catigale »

Fiberglass is pretty tough stuff.

On the :macx: trailer, the boat sits on 4 2x4 of about 4 feet length each, or about a total of 400 square inches of bunk. a 4000 pound Mac will load to 10 psi on the fiberglass. A 50 psi tensile strength rating for FG is a very low conservative number.
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by BOAT »

Okay Neo, here it is:


Image

Thanks to Currie for this nice picture. You can see the large foot wide spline near midships in the picture.

When you consider the M hull center of weight under sail you look to the daggerboard trunk - that is where the weight is centered to counter the mast and the sails - as you know - most of the sail plan is on the front of the boat - so that is why all the ballast is up front. The elevated portion at the very front is where the vent is and it carries a large amount of water (like 40 gallons) and the area around the daggerboard has a lot of water too (like near 60 gallons) and the flat area you see there stretching from the daggerboard trunk to the transom is full of water too (about 40 gallons) There is also a solid section inside the daggerboard trunk you can see there that has 300 pounds of solid permanent ballast. So that's about 330 pounds in the nose, another 300 pounds under the sole, and ANOTHER 500 pounds around the daggerboard PLUS another 300 pounds in solid ballast. You can see that Roger had more than enough space in the sole and the nose to add a ton more ballast but the boat just does not need it - it's already ballasted more than it needs. (In fact, if my guesses are right that's over 1400 pounds and about 400 pounds too much!)

Imagine if all the space you see there was full of water and you could pull the top of that daggerboard there left and right as hard as you can. You can imagine how the boat would just roll back and forth on it's round bottom, partly because of the wide transom. That's sort of what happens in the water and why the boat can still sail quite well on its side. A boat with a narrow transom starts to get very unstable on it's side. Since the ballast is so high up in the hull you can also imagine that it does not increase in leverage as significantly as a keel would because a keel would be far away from the bottom and get much harder to lift - that is why the keel boats start to bury their sides in the water when they heel over real far and the M boat does not. This makes the M boat almost impossible to knock down with wind alone.
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by Flightfollowing »

I just towed an x 1000 miles from homer Ak to Haines Alaska with what seemed about 100 miles of frost heaved road and lots of gravel on a otherwise stock dual axle trailer. Blew out one hub about 200 miles from destination with tire running a bit wobbly but staying on and apparently still supporting some load. Their were absolutely no repair services to help, so I simply drove on with a frequent eye on the tire in the mirror, and made the destination where I could finally get a replacement hub. Anyway, it made me a firm believer in dual axles. Also, consider adding a roller up near the front so that the boat bow much more easily loads on the trailer with steep ramps.
Also, from now on I will not only keep a spare tire and wheel, but also a hub.
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Neo
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by Neo »

Hi BOAT,

Many thanks for sharing this (again), it's great information.
I can't see any holes for the water to pass through to the bow box sections but I guess that's something they'll cut out later.

And yes that addition support in the hull lines up perfectly with the mid section trailer bunk.
I'm currently considering making up a new trailer frame. Steel C Channel (and other materials) is surprisingly cheap (like a 10th of the cost of a new trailer). So I'm considering upgrading the trailer where possible. But the more I look at this trailer the more I realize what a great job Roger made of it :)

My current trailer is 12 years old. I've checked it over with a hammer, its showing lots of surface rust but it's still sound. Yes it's time to work on a replacement while in winter is here :)

BTW... has anyone heard of a trailer made of 304 Stainless Steel?


All the best.
Neo
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sailboatmike
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by sailboatmike »

Im in the process of planning a trailer upgrade, the original Mac compliance plate says 1990Kg but there is also a later plate that says 1650Kg, its just not feasible to have a X on a 1650Kg trailer, if the trailer weighs in at 200Kg thats only 1450Kg for the boat and equipment.

Claimed weight of the hull and rigging is 1021Kg then add 140Kg for the motor, plus the sails and fuel and water plus assorted gears and the 1650kg disappears quick smart.

My frame is in good condition, but I will go for 50mm square axles 9 leaf springs (I would love torsion bar suspension but its stupidly expensive here in Aus, about double what it costs in the USA) and 2000Kg bearings with light truck tyres on ford steel rims
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Neo
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Re: Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

Post by Neo »

I hate those compliance plates too Mike lol!
I guess you already know of Huntsman Trailers for parts?

Might go for dual 50mm axles too.... Depends on costs. Whats the best dual load sharing leaf springs you've found?

All the best
Neo
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