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What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:47 pm
by Norca
My trailer has started to develop a hummin sound on the road, and this is what it looks like:

Image

Does anyone have an idea what is wrong? the two tires have similar wear on both sides of each tire
The pressure has been 50-55psi.
It looks to mee like the wheel have been bouncing on the road I never felt any heat build up at all.
This started on our way home from Florida last winter.
I thought I saw the left tire pointing out ( toe out) before launching, but now it looks OK,
I even checke the alignement with a straight-edge and tape mesure when I hauled the boat, all is good.
I can not feel anything loose either

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:55 pm
by Ponaldpe
Looks like camber , look close at the axle, the one I have came apart were the drop was attached to the shaft.

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:05 pm
by RussMT
That looks a lot like my tires on my single axle trailer. I attributed it to overloading an camber. I have since added another axle and replaced them with 4 new tires.

Image

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:13 pm
by seahouse
Yipes, sipes!

There are a lot of things wrong with that tire, I would not attempt any highway run with it (it is unsafe, but you already knew that) and if it is 5 or more years old (check the date code, it likely is) I would replace it/ them soon, unless you plan on just a few short and slow trips.

Rotating them might get rid of the humming (well, maybe not right away) and even out the wear a bit (but not the inside wear, of course) as a temporary stop-gap measure, but note that your contact patch will be smaller until it wears in (which will take longer than you want to have the tire on for, LOL).

I see cracking at the base of the tread (it has had a hard life), feathering (severe) all across the tread blocks, as well as the uneven inside wear that is probably the main source of your question. Are these things present all around the circumference of the tire? Maybe a belt has slipped in the tire? Tire balance is out, a weight has been thrown off?

You might want to run a slightly higher pressure in them, there is a bit less wear at the centre than the edges. (This is one of the best indicators you can have for determining ideal inflation pressure, the evenness of wear across the tread width). A tire is at its maximum load bearing capacity at its maximum inflation pressure, which will be written on the sidewall, and you could be close to it. On a car I tweak mine according to that feedback at every rotation (every 6 months or so, when the winters go on/ off) to get it even, and find the manufacturers recommendation is usually spot on.

Since you have checked and ruled out the bearings and have zero toe (though some toe-in is desirable) that leaves negative camber, as mentioned, as one culprit. Excessive play in the torsion bar pivot (“suspension”) could be a point to check as well. Or possibly a bent axel? Check the brakes? Fasteners in the trailer?

Unfortunately there is not much, if any ability to adjust camber and toe-in on the trailer. So there is not a lot you can do about them other than replace (maybe rotate) the tires. Note that with some tires some feathering is normal. (I don't believe I have ever seen a used motorcycle tire that did not have some feathering, it's part of the design).

Also on some (performance) cars negative camber improves performance, handling and responsiveness. If the car is driven as it was intended, wear will be even, but if it is not, then wear on the inside of the tires, just like on your trailer, could be considered to be “normal”.

Well, you pretty much got the answer I think you were expecting but might not have wanted to hear... new tires are in the near future. Good luck!

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:32 am
by Gypsea Wind
My trailer tires were doing the same thing. My tires looked just like yours after my first road trip (BWY Seattle to VA). I suspected an overloaded axle and added the second axle. Several long trips now and no weird wear.

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:14 am
by Norca
It is an original Mackgregor 5 years old trailer with original tires.
Could it be something as simple as underinflation and out of balance?
Max inflation is 65psi, and I ran them at 50psi on the leg home
Could that and vibration for them not being in balance cause this?
The cracking is something I just noticed while posting the picture, but I was planning to change
them before the next roas-trip anyway as they are past the best before date.

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:53 pm
by seahouse
While underinflation would be a contributor, there are other factors in play and I think you are thinking right when you consider balance. I would be surprised if they were balancing the tire/ wheels as they leave the factory. Can anybody confirm that they have wheel weights on their's? None on mine, and it does vibrate for the brief highway runs I make.

It's common around here to not balance trailer tires, although they seem to be more in need of it (meaning of lower quality, and more likely to be imbalanced) than auto tires. A top quality tire will need little weight to balance it. Maybe they are trying to pass trailer tires off as being top-quality performance and not in need of balancing, hahahah!

I think the logic is that the vibration is not easily felt from the tow vehicle, and so doesn't matter (not that I agree with it). Also, the majority of trailer tires get used for short hauls at lower speed, so why bother? And they get low mileage on them and need replacing from their age long before any imbalance problems appear. I have had trailered boats and small utility trailers all of my working life, and have never once replaced a trailer tire due to tread wear, but always because of ageing. Incidentally, my Mac tires still look like brand new (tread and sidewalls); stored indoors and have maybe 300-400 miles (some without the boat on it) on them after ~4 years.

So I suppose it could be reasonable argued that trailer tires only need to be balanced when they are being used for long-distance highway use.

:wink:

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:40 pm
by K9Kampers
One time after hauling out, I experienced a humming sound while on a secondary road. After stopping to inspect the trailer, I found that the tires where low. Made it to a service station to refill all to proper PSI. After getting back on the road, the humming persisted. Funny thing was, only when just the rear windows of our dual cab truck were down, front down / rear up - no humming. Had an observer on the side of the road listen while passing - nothing. Reason it to be the aerodynamics of the truck buffeting on the tonneau cover.
YMMV

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:06 pm
by dlandersson
If the tires are five years old - replace them - doesn't matter what they look like. 8)

it's five years old
Norca wrote:It is an original Mackgregor 5 years old trailer with original tires.
Could it be something as simple as underinflation and out of balance?
Max inflation is 65psi, and I ran them at 50psi on the leg home
Could that and vibration for them not being in balance cause this?
The cracking is something I just noticed while posting the picture, but I was planning to change
them before the next roas-trip anyway as they are past the best before date.

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:26 pm
by fishheadbarandgrill
That looks like cupping... and if you're running your tires less than max PSI, then your tires are under inflated. trailer tires should be run at max PSI. Your trailer is either overloaded or your suspension is suspect. I had the same symptom several years ago. Switched to radial tires (single axle). No problems since then. And I've had at least one trip that put 2K miles on the trailer.

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:33 pm
by RussMT
seahouse wrote:While underinflation would be a contributor, there are other factors in play and I think you are thinking right when you consider balance. I would be surprised if they were balancing the tire/ wheels as they leave the factory. Can anybody confirm that they have wheel weights on their's? None on mine, and it does vibrate for the brief highway runs I make.

:
Great info you have posted. Here and above. Wow.

My tires are not balanced. Not the original or the new ones I bought. Your theory makes sense. Nobody to complain about a bumpy ride back there.

Makes me think that bad luck (a poorly balanced tire) could create problems.

Reading this, if I were traveling long distances, I'd have 'em balanced. Why not. Just seems prudent. Maybe not necessary, but can only make the boats ride better. If the ever get the ambition, that's what I'm going to do.

--Russ

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:56 pm
by seahouse
RussMT wrote:
seahouse wrote:While underinflation would be a contributor, there are other factors in play and I think you are thinking right when you consider balance. I would be surprised if they were balancing the tire/ wheels as they leave the factory. Can anybody confirm that they have wheel weights on their's? None on mine, and it does vibrate for the brief highway runs I make.

:
Great info you have posted. Here and above. Wow.

My tires are not balanced. Not the original or the new ones I bought. Your theory makes sense. Nobody to complain about a bumpy ride back there.

Makes me think that bad luck (a poorly balanced tire) could create problems.

Reading this, if I were traveling long distances, I'd have 'em balanced. Why not. Just seems prudent. Maybe not necessary, but can only make the boats ride better. If the ever get the ambition, that's what I'm going to do.

--Russ
Yeah, all that Russ, and not to mention that all that pounding isn't likely enhancing wheel bearing life either.

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:52 pm
by Highlander
That,s definitely because of ur trl suspension being overloaded I have the same issue & so do others who load their boat up for long trips , I now load most of my stuff that I can on my truck then load up the boat @ the ramp dock , check ur load rating on ur trl by the time u add an engine , anchor , other stuff it does not take very much to reach these trl,s load capacity rating with the torsion suspension. only way out of this situation is keep the boat load to capacity rating or add a second axle as I have been planning on doing for three yrs now or more but never have the time :( , the torsion bushings on the axle sleeve r being overloaded so adding a second axle with brakes will up-grade ur trl load capacity to I believe # 7500

J 8)

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:05 am
by RussMT
Highlander wrote:That,s definitely because of ur trl suspension being overloaded I have the same issue
Never would have guessed. :D

Re: What is wrong with this tire

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:53 am
by dlandersson
Another factor, the materials wear out. The material is degrading the minute that wheel leaves the factory. If you read the fine print, most trailer tires are good (same with digital storage media, sad to say) for a specific length of time. After that they are increasingly unsafe. At some point, a person is betting their and their family/friends health and lives on that material. 8)

When you see the "Martian" remember, his habitat was desinged to last 30 days, not 30 years. :)
RussMT wrote:
seahouse wrote:While underinflation would be a contributor, there are other factors in play and I think you are thinking right when you consider balance. I would be surprised if they were balancing the tire/ wheels as they leave the factory. Can anybody confirm that they have wheel weights on their's? None on mine, and it does vibrate for the brief highway runs I make.

:
Great info you have posted. Here and above. Wow.

My tires are not balanced. Not the original or the new ones I bought. Your theory makes sense. Nobody to complain about a bumpy ride back there.

Makes me think that bad luck (a poorly balanced tire) could create problems.

Reading this, if I were traveling long distances, I'd have 'em balanced. Why not. Just seems prudent. Maybe not necessary, but can only make the boats ride better. If the ever get the ambition, that's what I'm going to do.

--Russ