is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

A forum for discussing issues relating to trailers and towing MacGregor sailboats.
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Todd
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by Todd »

BOAT I am looking at 2015-ish Grand Cherokees right now. Would you recommend? Looking at ditching my truck (F-150) which goes against all my rules regarding always owning a truck. I get horrible MPG with the truck towing (8 MPG). Realized a Grand Cherokee at 5000 lbs can be flat-towed behind the RV, is still decent off road, and still can tow 7400 Lbs. with 5.7 or diesel. The admiral isn't a fan of the jeep TJ nor the adventures it induces up in Colorado.
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by Todd »

Starscream wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:46 pm Resurrecting an old thread on vehicles with a Tow-Beast report on our new Pathfinder...it's been a year and several road trips.

The Pathfinder is far from being a beast, or a truck, but for us it is the perfect tow vehicle:
7 passengers
2-wheel drive for highway
All-wheel drive for launching
4-wheel lock for beach-launching
Incredible fuel economy. On a recent round trip (no boat) from Montreal to Lake George we averaged 26.7mpg, loaded with 5 people and luggage for five days. Towing the boat, loaded for a long trip, we average about 17mpg. The old Durango would average 11.5mpg towing and maybe 17 without the boat.
6,000 lb. towing capacity, so legal to tow even the most heavily loaded 26X.

It's like driving a big station-wagon. I actually describe it to my friends as a big bag of OK: nothing is incredible about it, neither looks nor performance, but everything is OK. There are a bunch of things that Nissan did right, and also several that are just stupid (a 14" passenger-side wiper, really, Nissan?, did you have someone sit in the passenger side during testing and look through all that un-wiped windshield?), but overall we are really happy with it. It's also super-affordable in terms of purchase price W.R.T. the average tow-vehicle. Lower first cost, lower operating cost, and all the convenience and ability that we need. For us, it is a home-run.
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Which engine do you have? I hadn't looked at the Pathfinders.
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Tomfoolery
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by Tomfoolery »

Todd wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:58 pm BOAT I am looking at 2015-ish Grand Cherokees right now. Would you recommend? Looking at ditching my truck (F-150) which goes against all my rules regarding always owning a truck. I get horrible MPG with the truck towing (8 MPG). Realized a Grand Cherokee at 5000 lbs can be flat-towed behind the RV, is still decent off road, and still can tow 7400 Lbs. with 5.7 or diesel. The admiral isn't a fan of the jeep TJ nor the adventures it induces up in Colorado.
Todd

I’ve had both the GC diesel, and now the GC with the V6 gas. Both towed my :macx: just fine. Better than the two 4Runners I also towed with, and also better than the Highlander I towed with for a few years.

The diesel had a 7200 lb tow rating (7400 lb in the 2WD version), and my gas version has 6200/6400 lb. And as you said, the hemi powered GCs are the same as the diesels. Also as you said, they’re flat-towable, and are fairly popular as toads. That’s the 4WD version, which has a transfer case - I don’t know if the 2WD version is towable four-down, but I doubt it.

Shown below when I towed to Cape Cod a year and a half ago, sans mast. Spent too much time rigging it the year before, for very limited sailing since I had to motor a couple of miles just to get to open water, so I went commando this time. :wink:

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Tomfoolery
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by Tomfoolery »

Oh, and I never saw the need for any of the hemi’s. I like the good (not great) gas mileage with the V6, and it has plenty of power towing my 4000 lb boat and trailer. The frame and driveline and such are the same with all the different engine choices, AFAIK at least, but I don’t know if there are any differences in the brakes. But with the disc brakes on my trailer, stopping has never been an issue.

Do get the factory tow package, though. It includes a tranny cooler with heavier jacket water cooler (actually, I think it’s high power fans), and both 4-pin and 7-pin electric connections. There’s one very long uphill stretch on my route to the Cape where the engine and transmission temps got up there, but that’s what cruise control at 65 mph will do when towing a trailer up a relatively steep (for the east coast) 5 mile grade. I dropped it down to 55 mph and they dropped to a around 220F, down from almost 250F. 190-200F is normal on flat ground at highway speeds in hot weather without a trailer.
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Starscream
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by Starscream »

Todd,

It has a 3.5L V-6. It's the evolution of the original nissan 3.5 that had been around forever, and I expect it to be reliable in the long run. We had a 1988 pathfinder with the original 3.5L and that went 400,000km before rust took her away from us.

It is paired to a CVT transmission that does a fine job of keeping the revs where they should be when the tow-mode is engaged. Nissan programmed the CVT to make little pretend-shifts to keep the average (dare I say dumb?) driver more familiar with the way it behaves. Part of the fuel economy of the vehicle is an almost total fuel shutoff when coasting, something that causes a bit more engine braking than the average driver is used to as well.

There are certainly better, and cooler, tow vehicles. But from a first cost, operating cost, and convenience point of view, you can't beat it IMHO.

Plus, the 6,000 towing capacity was an absolute requirement for us. A few X's have been weighed at over 5,000 lbs in towing configuration, and with our dual-axle steel trailer and gear for 5 people for a week, I suspect that ours is probably right around 5k lbs, if not more. I couldn't take the risk of towing with a 5k vehicle like EVERY other manufacturer offers....Highlander, Explorer, Pilot, Palisade, Traverse, etc. etc. You Americans have a fairly special legal system, and since we cross the border often with Bear hunt in tow, I would hate to be implicated in an accident with an underrated tow beast.
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by Todd »

Thank you both. I am still analyzing. The flat tow capability is huge for flexibility between being the “Tow-er” and the “Toad”. The truck is pretty stable with the :macm: behind it. Sounds like both of you logged some serious miles so I am more comfortable judging that towed behavior won’t be an issue. That being said we have some serious winds in the southwest that can wreak havoc on any trip but that is an exception circumstance.
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by dlandersson »

I had a 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I'd avoid the newer ones, they have little in common with the old Jeep except the name. 8)
Todd wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:58 pm BOAT I am looking at 2015-ish Grand Cherokees right now. Would you recommend? Looking at ditching my truck (F-150) which goes against all my rules regarding always owning a truck. I get horrible MPG with the truck towing (8 MPG). Realized a Grand Cherokee at 5000 lbs can be flat-towed behind the RV, is still decent off road, and still can tow 7400 Lbs. with 5.7 or diesel. The admiral isn't a fan of the jeep TJ nor the adventures it induces up in Colorado.
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by Russ »

The tech on these new vehicles is amazing. That's probably why the pathfinder can obtain 6,000lb tow capacity. It seems like a good choice.

I have towed our Mac (dual axle) with the Highlander. It's rated at 5,000lbs. Speeds under 65 are fine. Over that, it gets a bit dicey. Especially with the 2 12gal tanks in the aft full and that heavy DF70. Probably need to add more weight forward.

My son has a big Duramax and insists on towing it, so I sold my truck.


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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by BOAT »

We like using the Sprinter for towing because boat has no real effect on the van. The only time you can really tell the boat is there is when you pull away from a stop and the surge brake makes a little thud sound. But we had a rust problem in the roof and I had to tear the whole thing apart:
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It was not just the rust - the reefer was old and now there are much better things so it was time to redo the appliances too. We got all the rust fixed and I moved the residential AC unit under the spot the new electric fridge can go (the new ones can fit up against the roof) and created a sort of central utility column for all the stuff:
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This is the central equipment cabinet at 90% completion:
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I did something cool with the main couch - I used 8020 aluminum frame to create twin beds that fold out into loungers or full size beds:
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The galley is about 50% done - appliances in but still need the cabinet doors and drawers:
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The stove is rockin - the whole butcher block opens up to reveal the stove and increase counter space:
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There is a full size bathroom - still gotta finish the walls:
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and a full size standup shower that folds against the wall:
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with a hot water bypass so you can run the water till it's hot without wasting water.
It's got a rad solar setup too but I will post that somewhere else. Right now I am mounting the panels and starting on the headliner - then I'm done. This build is about 1/2 the weight of the Sportsmobile build that was in the original. The truck was already light, now it's even lighter.

We bought a new Jeep GC two years ago to tow the boat while the van was under construction. The Jeep tows really good - More HP than the van I think :? not sure - but the van still tows the best because that long wheelbase makes the boat invisible - It's like it's not even there. In the jeep I can feel the boat is back there.
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by dlandersson »

I've been looking at the Highlander. Not very many have a tow assembly? :|
Russ wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:28 am The tech on these new vehicles is amazing. That's probably why the pathfinder can obtain 6,000lb tow capacity. It seems like a good choice.

I have towed our Mac (dual axle) with the Highlander. It's rated at 5,000lbs. Speeds under 65 are fine. Over that, it gets a bit dicey. Especially with the 2 12gal tanks in the aft full and that heavy DF70. Probably need to add more weight forward.

My son has a big Duramax and insists on towing it, so I sold my truck.



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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by Tomfoolery »

dlandersson wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:21 am I've been looking at the Highlander. Not very many have a tow assembly? :|
When I got mine, I had to specifically request the factory tow package. It was integrated into the bumper and looked very neat, and it had the wiring (I think it had the 7-pin round, but I remember for sure) and heavy duty cooling. But it wasn't something most dealers had on the lot. They found one somewhere as I recall and traded cars with another dealer.

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Oh, and what Russ said about towing the Mac, with 2-axle trailer, and keeping speed down. I towed with it to the first MMOR I attended in 2013 (Ontario Mac Sailors meetup in Toronto, for those not familiar), which is about 175 miles each way. Next year I had the Jeep diesel. Much better, but certainly no 170" wheelbase Sprinter 3500 dually. Like I have now. :wink:
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by Russ »

dlandersson wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:21 am I've been looking at the Highlander. Not very many have a tow assembly? :|
The factory tow package (like Tom's) looks nice. Is built into the bumper and hidden.
But Toyota wanted close to $1,000 for the package that is basically hitch/wires.
Highlander trans is cooled from the radiator, so no cooler needed.

etrailer had a class III for $135 and wiring kit was $35.

I installed it myself with a torq wrench. Very easy. The car had a trailer wiring port in the car. Zero splicing. Plug and go.

I also installed one on my RAV4 (not for the Mac). etrailer has videos online. So easy, even I could do it.

It DOES hang below and not as clean as factory hitch, but $850 less, I can live with it.
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by BOAT »

That was the one thing I did not like about the SUV cars - the tow hitches where really ugly and even some of the factory tow hitches hung below the car and were pretty unsightly to the wife who drives the car daily - (why do women like these SUV's so much??) Give me a little sports car and I will be happy.

Anyways, that's why we got the Jeep - it had really good towing numbers and the factory tow bar is invisible - it's all built in and has a little rubber door that hides the hole where the hitch slides in. As I recall the tow package was not expensive on the jeep but we did have to order the car.

Another problem I had with all the Japanese SUV's was the undercarriage suspension and tires - they were all low profile wheels with wide flat tires and exposed undercarriage. The jeep has huge off road truck tires and there is still room enough for me to put my head into the wheel well above the tires and the under belly is all protected with steel plates. If I am going to spend money for a four wheel drive I expect something that can actually go off road. The jeep was the superior choice in that category.

The main advantage I saw in the Highlander was the longer wheelbase and the comfy ride, but those are also the two things that make the highlander less competent than the jeep off road.

I think the best SUV we tested all around was the Mercedes. That's what mastreb uses - but it's EXPENSIVE. We almost bought one.
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by Tomfoolery »

BOAT wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:44 amThe main advantage I saw in the Highlander was the longer wheelbase and the comfy ride, but those are also the two things that make the highlander less competent than the jeep off road.
And that will probably be our next car, as I don't really need the Jeep any more as a tow vehicle except around town. And the Highlander does just fine for that.

The Sprinter should do much better on the highway than anything I've had in recent years.
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Re: is this forum for "trailers & towing" only or can we talk about tow vehicles?

Post by BOAT »

Tomfoolery wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:36 am
BOAT wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:44 amThe main advantage I saw in the Highlander was the longer wheelbase and the comfy ride, but those are also the two things that make the highlander less competent than the jeep off road.
And that will probably be our next car, as I don't really need the Jeep any more as a tow vehicle except around town. And the Highlander does just fine for that.

The Sprinter should do much better on the highway than anything I've had in recent years.
Yeah, really - if your looking for a really nice comfy quiet street car the Highlander is a better choice - and the Mercedes is the BEST choice - the Mercedes is quieter and more comfy than the Highlander and also is more competent than the Highlander off road because the Mercedes retains the short wheelbase you MUST have if your going off road. I have seen the best outfitted Tacomas raised with huge tires and all the stuff get left behind in the woods by a little CJ7 and it was all about wheelbase length - that's the killer in the wild - the length of your car will stop you (no matter how well it's equipped.)

For towing if your not going off road and it's not the wifes grocery SUV then the best choice is a LONGER wheelbase. A nice long pickup truck or a 3/4 ton Sprinter van like the one I drive or even better a one ton Sprinter van with dual rear tires - that's gonna be the best tow car money can buy.
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