Helm balance

[Bluecrab]

Sailing last Sunday in 6-8 mph winds noticed a balanced helm on port tack and a slight lee helm on starboard tack. I had the full main and about 110% of a 150% jenny. Healing around 15°. I've been out in stronger gusts and it will round up on starboard tack so I'm wondering if it could be motor weight, wanting to flop over but then why not on port tack?

I checked rig tension this spring. The fore stay is almost all the way tight with about 1/4 inch of threads showing measuring 1° of rake. Mast is centered, uppers about 15% lowers 10%.

Wally

[mastreb]

Rudder alignment?

[bscott]

A partially furled/reefed genny will not point the same on different tacks because the increased diameter of the reefed luff will distort the air flow on the windward side of the sail. To combat this try rolling the furler as tight as you can to reduce the diameter of the furled/reefed sail. Use the winch

Bob

[Bluecrab]

Rudder alignment?

Check rudder alignment a couple years back, would not hurt to do it again.

Sail unwinds from port side, starboard tack would have better flow. could rigging setup be that sensitive?

Thanks for the help,

Wally

[Catigale]

My has always pointed better on port tack than starboard...Ive never tracked it down. At some point you get over the anger and reach acceptance, and then pick your cruise destinations to starboard..



DONT blame it on the Admiral's seating position...in any way, shape or form

[gianpaolo]

May I ask you guys what you mean when you express tension of the shrouds in percent, like 15% or 10 %, percent of what?

I'd also like to ask about rudder allignment, is there a way to do that working on something in the....... OMG! I wouldn't know how to call it in english , all the steering stuff under the stern that makes the rudders move toghether? (shame on me, shame on me!).
the rudders on my don't seem well alligned, but the only way i could think about (but haven't had the courage to do it) was to hammer badly the rudder hinges
I hope someone can understand what I mean with my uncertain english

thanks all in advance
Gianpaolo

[Bluecrab]

May I ask you guys what you mean when you express tension of the shrouds in percent, like 15% or 10 %, percent of what?

I'd also like to ask about rudder allignment, is there a way to do that working on something in the....... OMG! I wouldn't know how to call it in english , all the steering stuff under the stern that makes the rudders move toghether? (shame on me, shame on me!).
the rudders on my don't seem well alligned, but the only way i could think about (but haven't had the courage to do it) was to hammer badly the rudder hinges
I hope someone can understand what I mean with my uncertain english

thanks all in advance
Gianpaolo

From a book I have "Illustrated Sail and Rig Tuning" page 65, it uses a method for tensioning wire where you measure the elongation over a 2 metre sample. Starting with wire hand tightened, 1.0mm elongation means 5% of breaking load. To get to 15% elongation would measure 3.0mm. These numbers are for 1/19 stainless steel wire.

The book recommends 15% for cap shrouds and 20% on a fractional rig with aft swept spreaders not to exceed 25%. Being new to this I went with 15% to be cautious but may go to 20% to increase mast bend. It goes on to describe final tuning while under sail. I am by no means an expert on this just learning my self. Others may have more information.

As for aligning the rudders you may want to do a search, seems to me I read about some bending the bar that links the 2 rudders which already has a slight bend to it.

Wally

[jschrade]

Sure it's not the current or waves? We made 6 knots on one tack and struggled to get 4 on the other tack last weekend. It was the way the waves hit and the current and the slow leg had weather helm.

Jim

[ronacarme]

Healing a bit more on port tack might acount for the difference in helm.
Although my X sometimes seems to behave differently on opposite tacks.
Ron

[mikelinmon]

Seldom have a condition where waves/current are same on port or stbd. Some more power from jib partly rolled due to lee side being much more important than windward side; the roll will give you a bit of airfoil on one tack and mangle the air flow on other. Ever note the extra power just after the mast rotates! I always change the jib car position after each tack, also vang and mainsheet tension. Whats right on one tack is just the opposite on the other. Like this; if it needs to be 1" aft of normal on port, it will need 1" fwd on stbd! Good sailor to notice what you picked up, you are getting good, ready to race.
Mike

[DaveB]

I to have always pointed higher on a Port tack. I cked everything includeing the length of Stays. I replaced my uppers and when I measured the length, one was longer than the other side. If one was to measure the number of pin holes and equal on Port and Starboard than you would have a mast that is not straight up.
I am the 3rd owner of this boat and there have been no signs of any stays being replaced.
I have it pointing equal in both tacks.
I also replace fore and aft stays but not lower's as they are fine but I did adjust the lower pins for a eyeball straight mast.
I can't belive that both uppers were not same length and wonder if one lengthen in 14 years or the factory made a goof or it was designed that way.
I now get same results in tacking on both tacks after replacement stays and adjustments.(Higher pointing to windward)
In testing I had both full main and Jib out. reefing the main or Jib is not a balanced way of testing as the head sail on a roller furler when reefed is not the center of boat line, and a reefed main never has that tight foot.
Just a food for thought.
Dave

My has always pointed better on port tack than starboard...Ive never tracked it down. At some point you get over the anger and reach acceptance, and then pick your cruise destinations to starboard..



DONT blame it on the Admiral's seating position...in any way, shape or form

[Bluecrab]

Good sailor to notice what you picked up, you are getting good, ready to race.
Mike

Thanks for the vote of confidence Mike. I've had the boat 4 years, the first 2 we trailered and didn't get out enough, the last 2 have been in a marina. We have been out a more this year than ever but I feel my learning curve is still a bit shallow. Most of the time its more of a social thing for my crew and less technical. They're just happy it floats. Its hard to think about all the details of trim and what skills you want to improve when you are reminding your crew of the basics. I'd really like to know what I'm doing so I can be out there having fun when the wind picks up and be confident how the boat is going to act.

Is some amount of lee helm to be expected with some variations in trim or amount of sail, or is it something to be concerned about?

For those of you who have disconnected your motor when sailing did you notice better balance, the motor not pulling one way or the other?

Wally

[seahouse]

I don't recall seeing it discussed here before, and it may or may not have a bearing on this topic, but the M has an asymmetrical hull, particularly noticeable in the lower bow area. It is more convex on one side than the other, and IIRC, it might even be slightly concave. I've noticed it on several M's, so it's in the mould. I have not visited the factory, and I know moulds are expensive, but I don't know how many moulds (if more than 1) there are (have been) for the M hull. More moulds= faster production capability. Anyone know?

It's enough that it would almost certainly have an effect on the hydrodynamics of the boat. It may not be present in the X mould, I have not looked at any X's up close.

-Brian.

[Catigale]

Of course you haven't...you can't catch them.....Bazinga!!!

[Bluecrab]

the M has an asymmetrical hull, particularly noticeable in the lower bow area. It is more convex on one side than the other, and IIRC, it might even be slightly concave. I've noticed it on several M's, so it's in the mould.
-Brian.

I don't know Brian, not saying your wrong but I would think all the hours I spent on my back staring up at the hull through barrier coated/copper colored safty goggles I might have noticed something like that.

Wally