Mainsail raising issues

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mastreb
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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by mastreb » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:24 pm

Hey Brian,

Can I buy one of your custom boom roller goosenecks? I bought the Inmon roller furling main (used) but it's so huge on the boom that I'm not going to use it. In the winds here in San Diego I don't need reefing, just a better way to store the main. I won't be going to slugs ever so what you're doing sounds perfect for me.

Matt

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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by BOAT » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:39 am

Yes Captain Seahouse, the part I was talking about was for other boats. I do not think they make one for the MAC, but if I find one I will tell you. So far I have olny found a swivel for a V222 and an Aquarius 21. I just assume they are original salvage. That's what I was looking at. If I can't find anything I will need to get somthing made or make it myself.

I want to roll the sail onto the boom just to keep thing neat, not really as a way to reef or as a system for raising the sail. I guess for me it's more of a way to neatly lower the sail, (without using slugs).

I will send a picture of the goosneck idea for you comment.

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Highlander
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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by Highlander » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:03 am

Highlander - The Ronstan ball sliders do increase the gap over what it would be with plain sail slugs (looks to be at least twice in the photo), and you still feed them by hand into the mast slot of course. But that's got to be a nice smooth, frictionless system.

- B.

Hi B. I'm not so sure that the gap is greater as this system is trackless so will be some what closer to the mast I'm going to price the system & check it it some time between now & this spring , I have 3/8" slugs I believe & they do bind constantly even with sail coat on them & the mast slot, maybe 1/2" slugs would do a better job & less costly & less weight aloft !

J 8)
PS My slugs r sewn into the sail to minimize the gap "no connecting link"

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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by BOAT » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:32 am

If I were Highlander I would probably not be real worried about loss of PSI due to gaps. :) When you have half a dozen sails aloft at the same time I would not think loss of PSI is the main concern. :D If I lived in the east where the winds are more treacherous and the sailors more hearty I would probably be more concerned about reefing. Whatever Highlander uses for slugs are probably as good as it's gonna get.

Captain mastreb might understand - the wind rarely makes us reef the main here.

Here at the harbor yesterday we were praying to the wind Gods for MORE wind! :

Image

The pelicans were too hot:

Image

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Sea Wind
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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by Sea Wind » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:53 pm

Do you guys tuck the tack into the bottom of the mast slot or just “let it all hang out”.
sail slugs fixes this problem plus having a neatly stowed mainsail.
Image
photo credit goes to Tony (AKA TFlight)

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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by BOAT » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:10 pm

That looks like a lazy jack setup to me.

Those are very nice but I'm on the trailer a bit too much for one of those.

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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by Sea Wind » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:22 pm

Those are very nice but I'm on the trailer a bit too much for one of those.
The stack pack stays with the boom the lazy jacks stay with the mast, once the boom is connected all I have to do is clip the lazy jack lines to the rings on top of the cover. It actually takes me less time than getting the mainsailcover around the mast, zippering it and the wrap around top part.

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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by seahouse » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:00 pm

Hey Matt --

The part is with the boat in storage, but I found these pix which I will share - feel free to duplicate, simplify, or improve it for yourself. The (3/8", I think) Socket Head Cap Screw inside bottoms on the thread at the right depth, but threadlocker, a set screw or roll pin in the side will also work. I plan on working out the bugs from the components before I think about making things for others that want one.

The UHMW piece fits to the boom end, and it will work best when the screw is tightened down to bring the arms (tang attached to the boom, IIRC) tight against it. The boom will still pivot up and down, but it should have some resistance.

The plastic piece is positioned within the tangs on the boom so that the centre of rotation lines up with the approx centre line of the boom. If it doesn't, it will need to be rotated 180 degrees. Note that this necessarily moves the boom and sail upwards about an inch or so, but there was a tolerance at the top of the mast for even more than that, at least on my boat.

The metal end attaches to the mast fitting, and all the stock nuts and bolts will fit. This assembly simply replaces what (as I recall) are two (maybe one?) drilled, interconnected piece(s) of stainlesss tubing that come from the factory.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x40 ... 8e6268.jpg

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x40 ... 51789c.jpg

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x40 ... 0bf1fe.jpg

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x40 ... 48b12f.jpg

I did not take pix of the crank end (prototype = ugly anyway), but I will be happy to describe it in more detail from memory if anyone wants. It too was made from a block of UHMW that fits over the padeye at the end of the boom and connects via a quick release brass pin (~3/16" dia I think). The crank shaft is fixed to this, and the shaft has two parallel round plastic disk guides (to form a pulley shape) between which the brass snap fastener from the topping lift clips. So the shaft rides and rotates freely inside the topping lift snap hook.

Cranking it has been the Admiral's job, as I need to be at the mast at this stage. As BOAT mentions, the main halyard can be used for support if a topping lift is absent, and on an X maybe the pedestal can come into play. I used a purpose-made monopod at first, but the topping lift support performed perfectly, and was simpler.

In a jiffy, you might find that it's convenient to just roll the boom by hand without any crank. I just noticed from the date on the picture that I have used this for the last two seasons. But it leaves open the option to use the original procedure (flaking, etc) at any time without removing it, which I have done sometimes too. 8)

-Brian. :wink:

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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by seahouse » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:27 pm

And this one, loosely rolled...

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x40 ... 2f5a62.jpg

Highlander - I think (warning:from memory) the internal diameter of the luff slot in the mast extrusion measures 9/16", so that should be enough that the 1/2" might work. I tried a length of 1/2" OD hard poly airline, and it doesn't :cry: ... too much drag.

I was thinking that 3/8" or 1/2" diameter spheres (beads) with one stem for attachment close to the boltrope might run freely too.

mastreb - Does the Inmon system guide the bolt rope into and out of the mast slot? I haven't seen that system up close enough (none around here) to see in detail its workings, but it runs quite smoothly up, and down, in the video.

-B. :wink:

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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by seahouse » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:53 pm

Highlander - I just rechecked the Ronstan link you posted, and it lists the "C" dimension height of the intermediate cars as just under 1 - 1/4". The bolt rope can't sit much closer to the mast than that. As installed, (warning again: from memory) my slugs ride no farther than 1/2" or 5/8" from the bolt rope, riding on twin stainless connecting pins.

They (the Ronstan slides) lose a bit in the height department - but by the looks of them they've got to be really friction-free and sweet to use 8) .

-B. :wink:

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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by mastreb » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:54 pm

seahouse wrote:And this one, loosely rolled...

mastreb - Does the Inmon system guide the bolt rope into and out of the mast slot? I haven't seen that system up close enough (none around here) to see in detail its workings, but it runs quite smoothly up, and down, in the video.

-B. :wink:
No, but I have a spinlock mainsail feeder for that which works great. $75 at WM. Inmon's must come with one, but I bought mine used and didn't get all the bits and pieces.

I'm guessing you use a topping lift? I use a boomkicker, which will slide out of the boom when lifted and won't be much of a problem rotating, but it's an added complication. Hmm.

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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by BOAT » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:02 am

SEAHOUSE!

Hey skipper those boom blocks look really good - do you bolt the plastic piece into the blaock where the old boom hardware is?

I need to inspect my boom so I can see how that works. Is the hole to pin it? What does the socket do?

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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by Highlander » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:45 pm

Here's an old pic of my main u can see their is not alot of space "gap" between the main sail & mast due to the slugs being sewn in & also thing most of the air "wind" escaping through that gap I'd say 2/3-3/4 of it is recapture by the genny/jib slot thus is not a total loss of power I'm open to that theory !
Image

Here's a video from 2010 I believe u can see the slot in the main
http://s844.beta.photobucket.com/user/T ... 8.mp4.html

Enjoy J 8)

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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by Crikey » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:52 pm

mastreb wrote: No, but I have a spinlock mainsail feeder for that which works great. $75 at WM.
That'd be about right!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spinlock-Mainsa ... 0599761426
How would it perform with smoothing out a single point reefing system, both up and down? I want to get one of these this spring.
My preference is for the factory supplied bolt rope combined with the rotating mast. The maximum difference in potential overall sailing speed doesn't take into account, the differences, at other points of sail. Given the fairly low airspeeds at play, any elimination of turbulence is going to be a good thing. The only possible step higher than this, is a wingsail.

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Re: Mainsail raising issues

Post by BOAT » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:15 pm

Gee Wiz Captain Mastreb, with that main spinner you probably could raise a bolted sail from the cockpit from a rolling boom.

Maybe I will get one of those too! :!:

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