26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

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fishstalker7
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26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by fishstalker7 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:41 pm

Hi everyone!

My spinnaker is rigged with a single (possibly short) sheet (factory rig?) requiring you to re-run it around the forestay and re-sheet it thru the stern block when you gybe.

I'd like to rig the spinnaker in the middle of a single long line that would allow an outside gybe (not thru the forestay) with both ends secured in the stern blocks. Has anyone else done this and by chance do you know a good line length for this style of rigging?

I'm thinking 74' would be about right factoring figure 8's at the ends and an alpine butterfly loop or cow hitch at the clew?

Any thoughts on optimal line size or the load on the active sheet?

Thanks for your thoughts!

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by Wind Chime » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:45 pm

We gybe our Asymmetrical in front of forestay as you suggest, and fly symmetrical and a gennaker sails as well.

Gybing in front of the forestay is pretty easy, you just ease the working sheet and steer the boat behind the flying spinnaker and then sheet in on the old lazy side, but you need lots of sheet to make it easy.

Another tip: cut the sheet in two, and attached them both to the spinnaker clew. This way if you chafe the sheet and break at the clew, you still have one sheet attached for control, otherwise you will be "clueless" (no control of the sail clue). Do the same with the jib sheet as well.

Length: Line length is typically 2.5 times the length of the boat. So for us it’s about 75 feet. So you are spot on with your length.

Diameter: go much lighter than your standard headsail sheets because you are sailing in lighter wind so there is much less load, and the weight of a heavy sheet will drag in the water during wind-luffs. (smaller than 3/8)

This photo below was during a Regatta, and we knew there were no gybes on the light-air downwind leg so we just ran one working-sheet to reduce line fouling.
Image

This photo is of our 150% Gennaker with 75' sheet, notice starboard lazy-sheet is almost in the water.
Image

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fishstalker7
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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by fishstalker7 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:07 pm

Wind Chime,

Thanks for the confirmation on my estimates!

In your pics I looks like you have a forestay jib (110?), then you have a gennaker and a spinnaker? What apparent wind angles do you sail for each sail and in what wind ranges?

Thanks...you may be talking me into another sail! :D

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by Wind Chime » Fri May 01, 2015 1:46 pm

fishstalker7 wrote:Wind Chime,

Thanks for the confirmation on my estimates!

In your pics I looks like you have a forestay jib (110?), then you have a gennaker and a spinnaker? What apparent wind angles do you sail for each sail and in what wind ranges?

Thanks...you may be talking me into another sail! :D
Fishtalker:
Spinnakers are lots of fun, even short-handed. Previous post on this topic: http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... 2&start=30

We have a 150% genoa with black uv strip on a CDI-2 roller furling system, also have 3 light air spinnakers (Asymmetrical, Symmetrical, Gennaker)

- Dacron genoa can be reefed (roller furled) to any size and then sheeted to inboard T-tracks, to balance our X in winds up to about 25knots, after that everything including the sea state gets a bit much for our lite Mac and then motor-sail with double-reefed main for stability.
- I don't not use the symmetrical as much anymore because I am short crewed lots of the time and there we run 4 lines for this type of sail. (topping lift and down-haul for 8-12’ pole, lazy sheet and working sheet, we don't use guys).
- Our Asymmetrical is made of 3/4 ripstop nylon and is good to about 15 knots max, draws well to a little forward of a beam reach, any more forward of that and we set the gennaker.
- Our Gennaker is 3/4 ripstop nylon, same 150% size as the genoa and almost the same shape. gennaker cut is very flat (almost like the genoa) so we take almost the same angles as genoa right up to close hauled in wind max to about 15 knots, then we set the dacron genoa. Notice the windex on the masttop in this photo, of the gennaker and you can see how close to the wind we are, and could still tighten the luff (raise halyard or tack down) to point a little higher.
Image[/url]

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by fishstalker7 » Fri May 01, 2015 11:27 pm

Wind Chime,

Thanks for the help! Great description! 8)

I also sail light-handed a lot (65% solo time/30% only sailor aboard with guests/5% with a fellow sailor aboard) and the asymmetrical works well for downwind, beam aft conditions, but I find I need a middle ground between my furled 110 jib (we have moderate to heavy winds here regularly) and the asymmetrical when beam forward in 10-15 knots (also normal conditions) or 15 knots plus beam to downwind (but still solo or light crew).

I'd really like to add a gennaker on a bowsprit roller furler and only launch the asymmetrical when truly downwind (150-210 apparent), but haven't figured out a way to do so manufacturing-wise or without stressing the anchor roller and/or putting in a backing plate. :?

I think if I had the 110 jib for pointing in all conditions and 20 knots plus on all points of sail; and a gennaker on a bowsprit roller for pointing in 15 knots minus, reaching, and winging 150-210 downwind...I'd likely leave the asymmetrical below and be lazy with the rollers while having a pretty well rounded sail plan for normal wind fluctuations down here.

Any thoughts on that concept?

I may invest more time, energy and money into it if I have a plan that would solve 95% of the sailing conditions here to the Keys/Bahamas on a 26m! :o

Thanks for your thoughts and experience!

Fair winds!

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by Hugh » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:23 pm

I've watched this thread with interest.
Just received my AS spinnaker for my :macm: today.
Not having my boat close and only having seen pictures of a flying spinnaker,as well as no other boats to compare, I'm having a hard time visualizing all the requirements for flying a spinnaker.

To clarify sheet length 75' of sheet in total or 2 sheets @ 75' each ?

Sheet diameter Wind Chime has said <3/8" Will 1/4" work?

Halyard Diameter and length:
I"m assuming similar diameter to main halyard although I wonder if I need that diameter or smaller?
Length:
I'll be mounting the Tang 18" above head sail tang and be using a free swivelling block. The halyard will come back to the cockpit via a double block at the base of the mast and then following the main sail halyard path through a clutch on the deck to the cockpit. Hope to get to our boat soon to do a measure but if anyone has an idea of halyard length that would be great.
Hugh

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by Tomfoolery » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:33 pm

I don't have an exact length, but the "I" dimension is almost 25 ft, so if the spinnaker hound is 1-1/2 ft up from the forestay hound, you'd need 50 ft + 3 ft just to go up and come back down to the mast base. Add a few more feet to get to the bow, plus whatever you need to get to the cockpit. Say 4 ft from the center to the rail, and another 8 ft to the cockpit. That's 65 ft of halyard, and maybe a little extra to be sure.

Halyard weight isn't an issue for the most part, so 5/16" or even 3/8" is ok, though 3/8" is pretty thick stuff for such a small boat.

For the sheets, 1/4" doesn't have good 'hand', as it's pretty thin, but if you wear gloves, you should be able to work it ok. I use 5/16", even though it's on the heavy side for a small light-air sail.

There's always a competition between what you can grip easily, and what's not too heavy or expensive for the job. Just about all the main lines (halyards and sheets) originally supplied by MacGregor were 5/16", if memory serves.

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by Doug W » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:03 pm

Good thread topic.

I have 100' of spinnaker sheet (50' per side). This allows me to gibe and control the spinnaker sheets like the Genoa. I works well but is a lot of line to rig...

I've kicked around the idea of changing how I rig the spinny.

Doug

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by THE CUSCUS » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:57 pm

Image

My spinnaker is a 100' continuous piece of 1/4 New England ropes flight line. At the midpoint of the sheet, the cover has been removed (with a proper taper ) about 10' in each direction , so only the Dyneema core is exposed and another short length is attached in the midpoint. This makes a lightweight "Y" that attaches to the clew of the sail. In light winds, if you use heavy line, the lines weight will collapse the sail some. I use a Rachet block, tied to a short line that attaches to my stern cleats, for the rear turning blocks.

Image

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by Hugh » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:07 am

THE CUSCUS wrote:Image

My spinnaker is a 100' continuous piece of 1/4 New England ropes flight line. At the midpoint of the sheet, the cover has been removed (with a proper taper ) about 10' in each direction , so only the Dyneema core is exposed and another short length is attached in the midpoint. This makes a lightweight "Y" that attaches to the clew of the sail. In light winds, if you use heavy line, the lines weight will collapse the sail some. I use a Rachet block, tied to a short line that attaches to my stern cleats, for the rear turning blocks.

Image
Great pics! Can you fill me in on on how to remove the outer sheath and what proper taper is? It looks to me that the sheath is taped where you removed it to keep it in place ? I can't tell from the picture as to how you attached the Tack line "Y" to the sheet.

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by THE CUSCUS » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:34 am

Not sure exactly how the core and the cover were tapered together, as a friend who is really good with lines did it for me. But I can say that it required him to pass the core through 50' of the cover. I know this because it took afew hours total to make the 2 tappers and he was growling the whole time. That is not tape, its whipping twine, to keep the ends of the cover from being able to fray. I'll have to look at the sheet to see what knot we used to attach the leg of the "Y" to the midpoint of the exposed core.

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by jakeintexas » Thu May 19, 2016 10:57 am

Hope everyone still on this post. I'm interested in finding new or used asymmetrical spinnaker. I'm by far still new to all this. But I have opportunity to purchase one on the cheap, but I think it may be to big. Not sure what's right fit. But it's says.... 30luff 35 leech 22ft. I'm wanting a big one but one that's a right fit. To fly in light to moderate wind. Any help?

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by THE CUSCUS » Fri May 20, 2016 9:19 am

That one is def too large for your boat. The luff should be roughly the hoist length of your spinnaker halyard and the foot length around 1.6 times your "J" dimension. Macs are odd sized rigs, and you will probably find it hard to find a used one that will work. Look into a new one, they are not that expensive ( in relative boat bucks).

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by Baha » Fri May 20, 2016 11:25 am

This is a great thread. I have an OEM kite that I have yet to use. How do you single handeds deploy and recover your kite? Snuffer bag? Furler?

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Re: 26m Asymmetrical Spinnaker Sheet Length?

Post by Tomfoolery » Fri May 20, 2016 11:53 am

Chutescoop.

My boat.

Image

Beene's boat.

Image

Image

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