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Sailing lessons

A forum for discussion of how to rig and tune your boat or kicker to achieve the best sailing performance.

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Re: Sailing lessons

Postby PAWSEIDON » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:13 pm

Well, our :macx: has been in Dry Storage in South San Francisco (Oyster Point) so there was little oppertunity to meet up with other Mac Sailors, dispite there being about 5 other Mac in the lot. However, we were just notified that the Dry Storage lot is closing for re-development of the area and everyone has to be out by the end of June.

We are now going to move Pawseidon south to a slip in the port of Redwood City at least for the summer. The point of this is that the dock that the slip we most likley will be assigned to has a :macm: about two slips down. Hope to strike up some Mac sentric conversations this summer and learn as much as I can from a more experienced :macm: sailor.

SO, if anyone on this site has a :macm: in a slip on Dock A at the Port of Redwood City, I'm buying the first couple of rounds :)
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Re: Sailing lessons

Postby Baha » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:13 am

Anybody that wants to take the RYA courses could always come stay with me...it's going to take you at least 2-3 weeks to do the Competent Crew, Day Skipper shore based, and Day Skipper Practical. The first and last are on the boat...a real blast! Take them up in Suffolk so you can deal with tides and currents. I do feel the training I got is probably some of the best out there.
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Re: Sailing lessons

Postby Bilgemaster » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:36 am

Baha wrote:Anybody that wants to take the RYA courses could always come stay with me...it's going to take you at least 2-3 weeks to do the Competent Crew, Day Skipper shore based, and Day Skipper Practical. The first and last are on the boat...a real blast! Take them up in Suffolk so you can deal with tides and currents. I do feel the training I got is probably some of the best out there.


That's a very kind offer, Baha. In case others are unaware of the situation yonder "across the pond", a quick reading of Zuzana Prochazka's July 20, 2016 article, "What You Need to Know Before You Go Chartering in Europe" in Sail magazine will describe how some newer and still forthcoming regulations concerning required sail training and certifications might affect any of you folks who, like me, might one day like to do a bareboat charter, sail the Med, anchor off of Roman ruins and perhaps get all "sloppy and reeking of licorice" with Greek fisherfolk (Cue the bazoukis!).

In short, it seems that the new required International Certificate of Competence (ICC) for chartering over there has no recognized American equivalent, so neither those ASA courses nor the International Proficiency Certificate (IPC) that one may obtain thereby will necessarily take the place of a required ICC. So, although ASA offers the IPC for a small fee to any students who have completed coursework through ASA Bareboat 104 and US Sailing also offers an IPC after completion of its bareboat handling courses, the IPC and ICC are not interchangeable in the eyes of European governments in all instances. What this all means is that you may show up for a bareboat charter some day on the Adriatic and suddenly learn that you have to hire a very expensive captain to hold your hand the whole cruise, assuming one's even available.

But here's where Baha's kind offer comes into play: The "RYA" he mentions is short for "Royal Yachting Association," and its RYA Day Skipper designation is sufficient to attain the ICC. While there are some training options in the States or Canada or Oz through schools somehow affiliated with the RYA, one could probably save a lot of money doing the Theory portions of the RYA's Day Skipper Course online (there's a 20% discount for this found here), and then wrap up the required Practical testing over there in Suffolk where Baha dwells and "The Broads" are completely different than the ones you might be used to.

At the moment it's mostly Europe embracing this new ICC regime, but it's said that soon many Caribbean countries are likely to follow (Belize is already on board), so I just thought you all should know that Baha's gracious offer of hospitality, apart from likely being a hull of a nice vacation, might also portend some very practical benefits for those of us ever hoping to charter a bareboat.
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Re: Sailing lessons

Postby BOAT » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:29 am

The RYA is famous, at least over here in SD - because we get those IMOCA 60 boats and other guys over here for the Hawaii trials - If your really want a serious international sailor rating then I can tell you the North Sea must be on your radar - most yanks can handle the Atlantic ratings but to go international you need to kick it up a notch to the North Sea and then finally to those Barcelona world guys in the BOC . . not sure how many of you guys out there plan to sail the IMOCA 60's but that's the dream cruise that drives all these radiologists and dentists and small IT development company owners to rush out an buy the latest Beneteau and then go kill themselves trying to round Cape Horn in a sailing condominium. You pilots out there might understand the correlation between that and the dentists that bought Beechcraft Bonanzas back in the 60's and ended up augured into a mountain after they collapsed the tail feathers. Some designs are just not for the un-trained skipper - you need the right training on the right ocean - there is not much way of getting real life North Sea or Arctic experience as TransPac sailor - and a lot of really good TransPac sailors have lost their lives trying to ply the North Sea.

"Man's got to know his limitations"

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Re: Sailing lessons

Postby Y.B.Normal » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:54 pm

"You pilots out there might understand the correlation between that and the dentists that bought Beechcraft Bonanzas back in the 60's and ended up augured into a mountain after they collapsed the tail feathers." --hence the name "fork-tailed doctor-killers". They were good airplanes, IF YOU WERE A COMPETENT PILOT.
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Re: Sailing lessons

Postby BOAT » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:32 pm

Y.B.Normal wrote:"You pilots out there might understand the correlation between that and the dentists that bought Beechcraft Bonanzas back in the 60's and ended up augured into a mountain after they collapsed the tail feathers." --hence the name "fork-tailed doctor-killers". They were good airplanes, IF YOU WERE A COMPETENT PILOT.


They were EXCELLENT airplanes, but Doctors should only be allowed to fly wing over models - safer and better visibility.
Compared to the canvas picnic chairs in the Cessna and wood parts in the piper of the day the luxury interiors in the Bonanza were too tempting for some Lincoln driving Endontist who could afford anything he wanted. Too many pushed into a dive only to realize they had surpassed red line speed for the tail in less than 10 seconds and instead of just letting the aircraft level out slowly on it's own they all seemed to have a knee jerk reaction to yank on the yoke and collapse the tail.

Anyways, RYC must be a great place to get some North Sea experience - I have heard about that club from other guys here in the States.
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Re: Sailing lessons

Postby Baha » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:43 am

Bilgemaster wrote:
Baha wrote:Anybody that wants to take the RYA courses could always come stay with me...it's going to take you at least 2-3 weeks to do the Competent Crew, Day Skipper shore based, and Day Skipper Practical. The first and last are on the boat...a real blast! Take them up in Suffolk so you can deal with tides and currents. I do feel the training I got is probably some of the best out there.


That's a very kind offer, Baha. In case others are unaware of the situation yonder "across the pond", a quick reading of Zuzana Prochazka's July 20, 2016 article, "What You Need to Know Before You Go Chartering in Europe" in Sail magazine will describe how some newer and still forthcoming regulations concerning required sail training and certifications might affect any of you folks who, like me, might one day like to do a bareboat charter, sail the Med, anchor off of Roman ruins and perhaps get all "sloppy and reeking of licorice" with Greek fisherfolk (Cue the bazoukis!).

In short, it seems that the new required International Certificate of Competence (ICC) for chartering over there has no recognized American equivalent, so neither those ASA courses nor the International Proficiency Certificate (IPC) that one may obtain thereby will necessarily take the place of a required ICC. So, although ASA offers the IPC for a small fee to any students who have completed coursework through ASA Bareboat 104 and US Sailing also offers an IPC after completion of its bareboat handling courses, the IPC and ICC are not interchangeable in the eyes of European governments in all instances. What this all means is that you may show up for a bareboat charter some day on the Adriatic and suddenly learn that you have to hire a very expensive captain to hold your hand the whole cruise, assuming one's even available.


AND....you get a great experience with a wonderful trainer on a well-found yacht in and around some of the best tidal sailing experiences on offer. The Day Skipper practical is done in and around the River Orwell and Stour and off shore into the channel. None of it is on the Broads, which is a whole different animal. The RYA is actively fighting any mandatory certification while encouraging folks to at least go for the Day Skipper, which I currently hold. I want to finish up with Coastal Skipper. I don't have the time, money, or appropriate boat to do Yachtmaster. I did my training at East Anglia Sea School, based at Suffolk Yacht Harbour. They have a wonderful staff.

But here's where Baha's kind offer comes into play: The "RYA" he mentions is short for "Royal Yachting Association," and its RYA Day Skipper designation is sufficient to attain the ICC. While there are some training options in the States or Canada or Oz through schools somehow affiliated with the RYA, one could probably save a lot of money doing the Theory portions of the RYA's Day Skipper Course online (there's a 20% discount for this found here), and then wrap up the required Practical testing over there in Suffolk where Baha dwells and "The Broads" are completely different than the ones you might be used to.

At the moment it's mostly Europe embracing this new ICC regime, but it's said that soon many Caribbean countries are likely to follow (Belize is already on board), so I just thought you all should know that Baha's gracious offer of hospitality, apart from likely being a hull of a nice vacation, might also portend some very practical benefits for those of us ever hoping to charter a bareboat.
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Re: Sailing lessons

Postby sailboatmike » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:52 pm

My partner just signed up for a "Back To Sailing Day For Women" run by our club

4 Hours on a boat with an instructor plus lunch and drinks for the huge cost of $25 ($17us)

I hope this will give her more confidence and let me have more of a break from running the boat while we are out. She tries to be hands on but sort of lacks the intuition that a well practiced crew has, Im sure that will come with confidence and a better understanding of how things are done and why.

She does really well for someone that never set foot on a sailboat until a couple of years ago and loves to get involved in the actual sailing which IMHO makes our time sailing a lot more enjoyable
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Re: Sailing lessons

Postby bobflshmn » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:05 pm

Sailing lessons done, certification received!
Well we completed the sailing lessons last weekend, here is a brief review specific to our experience.
Our instructor was very knowledgeable but not a good teacher, he was easily distracted which often left students with less experience confused. A few times I spoke up to keep us out of situations I didn't feel we belonged in. Additionally the class was held with 4 students plus an instructor on a Catalina 23, way to small for this many people. But enough negative.

The class was a good hands on experience which reinforced the skills I already had, and greatly improved my docking under sail skills, man overboard skills, and some sail trimming. The first mate greatly improved her skills, and is more confident that she could handle the boat now. She too was also frustrated with the instructors lack of attention.
It was good that we took the class, as we both felt we improved. Bad, I would not recommend this particular school. There was another class going on at the same time, their instructor did more handling of the boat than the students, and again the boat was over crowded.

In all, I would recommend the course to those returning or looking for a tune-up. Ask questions about boat and class sizes. Speak up if there are things going on which you feel are not right. And look for discounted deals during the off season.
Last edited by bobflshmn on Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sailing lessons

Postby sailboatmike » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:15 pm

It just goes to show, some people are very knowledgeable but just dont have the personality or the knowledge to teach what they know, Im a qualified vocational trainer and it takes a lot of knowledge in training techniques to enable someone to successfully pass on that information in a way that is easily understood by the learners (we dont call them students anymore).

Instructing techniques are just as important as the knowledge we have to pass on and further too this is techniques for verifying that the learners have understood the learning we have passed on and can actually put that information to practical use and give extra assistance to those who struggle

A typical example is you can show someone how to tie a bowline knot, but then the trainer should ensure the students can tie one themselves by getting them to practice several times, and then they can tie one when they dont have time to think about rabbits and holes etc. the evaluation is called evidence based assessment, so they would also need to tell you typical examples of situations in which the bowline is a suitable knot to use and situations which a bowline isnt suitable and why. its not suitable.

Its simple really and should be included in the trainers lesson plan
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