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Weak links in the macgregor

A forum for discussion of how to rig and tune your boat or kicker to achieve the best sailing performance.

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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Baha » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:23 am

Not yet... but I do know that tracking is much better with it installed. I will experiment this spring!
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Highlander » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:22 am

Ixneigh wrote:Vertical rudders will not work in shallow water. Once raised up half way, there will not be enough rudder to sail. At least on the M model. With caution, I sail mine with the rudders up in shallow water often. The skeg mod helps out in this case.

Ix


The :macm: sails just fine with one rudder so I,m sure it would sail & steer just fine with two rudders just half submerged in a vertical position I,m assuming that if one is sailing in 6ft of water or less that they r going no more than 2 knt,s & no more than 5% heel :) even if u were surfing over a reef :P

J 8)
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Ixneigh » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:30 pm

It has not been my experience that the M sails well with one rudder except in ideal conditions. Start having to plow through chop with 2 reefs in the main and a scrap of jib and she don't sail well at all.

Ix
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby kadet » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:22 am

Ixneigh wrote:It has not been my experience that the M sails well with one rudder except in ideal conditions. Start having to plow through chop with 2 reefs in the main and a scrap of jib and she don't sail well at all.

Ix


In those conditions she don't sail well with two 8)
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Ixneigh » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:08 am

;)
Actually I was pretty surprised. I wouldn't normally (read never) try to go any distance up wind in those winds but with the right sails she will do it. But its sure uncomfortable. I was doing better than other boats I've had though.

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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby sailboatmike » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:09 pm

I cant actually remember a boat that I would say is a enjoyable ride when your banging into a big headwind (coming directly from where you want to go of course). I like to sail a bit further off the wind and sail flatter and faster all be it a slightly longer distance. But trying to do it with bad sails is just a nightmare, I know I have done it AND given up and fired the iron genoa for the last couple of miles because we had a tide deadline for hauling out
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Highlander » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:49 pm

Yes lake sailing & ocean sailing with tides & currents doe,s change a lot of factor,s when sailing against both :o
I should have mentioned that sorry !
J 8)
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby whgoffrn » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:24 pm

Not sure how I missed some very old threads but apparently there was a member here "madmike" that took his x to Hawaii from Sandiego....his boat was heavily modified carbon fiber mast but also stressed the importance of doing some serious upgrades to the rudder and centerboard .....
He apparently used aluminum plate and then covered with carbon fiber had much heavier brackets looking at pics of his and said he used the engine at low rpms to help assist steering to alleviate some of the pressure placed on the rudders (makes sense)
Guess it's too late to get carbon fiber as I've already sent my rudders off to have white oak ones made and in doing so I've realized another deficiency... the rudders must be tied down so they won't ride up ...if you turn the wheel at all if one or both rudders ride up (hit seaweed) you can easily break them from the lateral forces put on them if u turn....yet if u tie them down and have much stronger rudders ...white oak carbon fiber metal or what have u and u hit something you will rip the transom off ....so for the down hall lines I'm having small holes drilled for 300lb mono to tie the rudder to the down hall rope so it will snap the 300lb mono before it rips the transom off
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Ponaldpe » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:55 pm

I put adjustable release cleats on my rudders to hold them down.
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby sailboatmike » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:55 pm

whgoffrn wrote:for the down hall lines I'm having small holes drilled for 300lb mono to tie the rudder to the down hall rope so it will snap the 300lb mono before it rips the transom off


Nice idea, however mono line will stretch under force and this will let the rudders ride up and put a much greater load on the rudder assembly, maybe some of that braided fishing line would be better as it doesn't stretch
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby whgoffrn » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:10 pm

Yeah braid may work better since it won't stretch ...good thinking ....i considered release clips but not sure I could find any strong enough I still want several hundred pounds of retention force in the event I hit a big pile of seaweed or something in the water that pushes them up
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Baha » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:24 am

I have found the release cleats work really well.The only time I have had them release was when I grounded on some mud. Just keep them clean so they won’t seize up.
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby whgoffrn » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:23 pm

Well apparently this rudder delima may be a bit more than I originally planned I have white oak rudders being made as we speak will take a few weeks to get back but the guy told me he really doesn't know how much stronger or if any stronger they will be .... which is kinda not as reassuring as I would like ....he said the only way to find out is break one ...put both in a vice and start adding weight till u figure out which one cracks first..... so I'm tweaking my rudder design slightly by having the guy making my rudders not round the leading edge of the rudder at the top 1/3 so that I can have a welded stainless steel plate that goes across both sides and the leading edge to brace it on three sides for the first 1/3 of the rudder where I've seen most rudders break...... if that doesn't work I don't know what will...... rudder brackets are easy fix welded lip for a vice to slip into and clamp down and the grudgeons are gonna get welded to the outboard plate with rebar....well after i figure out how to get around the fact the metal piece to open and close the ballast valve is in the way
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby sailboatmike » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:39 pm

You guys are so lucky, its very hard to find anything but pine here in the hardware stores and the few bits of hardwood they keep are VERY expensive, I have been pricing out some hardwood to make new rudders and it will cost me about $150 in wood and thats not just for the cores (3/4" thick) , for some strange reason the price of the wood goes up disproportionately to the width, for example if I wanted to buy 5 1/4" wide wood it costs about 2 1/2 times for the same length of 1 1/4 inch wide wood.

As such I have decided to buy thinner wood and dowel and glue it together and put marine ply outer on each to bring up the thickness
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Ixneigh » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:05 am

If I was doing it id make the top 3rd out of solid glass and call it good. Foamcore the rest of it with a generous skin. I'd make them a few inches wider but no more. I would use a metal insert sleeve where the pivot bolt goes through.
Note I routinely sail my boat with the Ida Rudders in the up position and have had no issues.

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