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Weak links in the macgregor

A forum for discussion of how to rig and tune your boat or kicker to achieve the best sailing performance.

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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Ixneigh » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:42 am

I'd be mighty tempted.

Ix
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Tomfoolery » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:47 am

I bought an AC only, 230A stick welding machine when I was in high school. And I still have it. I dragged it around for decades once I moved out without even plugging it in, until my oldest wanted to build a push sled (he was a college baseball player then). So I ran a 50A 240V circuit into the garage and taught him to weld. With the right rod, it's not difficult, though we're not fabricating fracture-critical hollow bridge beams in my garage. :o

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You stack weights on it and push, from either end. Good for training sprinters, which is similar to baseball of course. And NOT as easy as it looks. :P It ended up a semi-permanent resident of the training gym at his college.

Then my younger one wanted to build some stuff, so he made a glute-ham raise machine (for what I can only describe as face-down sit-ups, and NOT as easy as it looks :P ), as well as some other stuff (farmer carry bars, duck walk bar, etc.).

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So grab an inexpensive welding machine*, a few tools (wire brush, chipping hammer, helmet, cheap Harbor Freight 4-1/2" angle grinder with cutoff wheels), and some scrap steel, long leather welding gloves (you'll get a sunburn in very short order without full protection from UV), and teach yourself to make stuff. 8)

For structural repairs on a boat trailer, I'd tack weld anything you're not comfortable welding yourself and let a shop do the welding, but things that won't hurt anyone or anything if the welds should fail would be fine to do yourself as you learn.

*120V machines are only good for relatively thin material with small wire and small weld sizes, but can be perfectly adequate if properly applied. Most people tend to overweld when in doubt, but even a 3/16" fillet weld with good penetration is a lot stronger (per unit length of weld line) than you might think. We could have fabbed those devices above with a cheap flux core machine from HF.
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby BOAT » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:29 am

Well, I do have 240 volt in my garage - I guess I could do that - but I would not want whgoffrn to put his rudders on the line trusting my skills trying to learn to weld -

I guess I'm game if whgoffrn is! :? So, which video should I watch to become a welder? 8) I need glasses, right?
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Tomfoolery » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:04 am

That's stainless steel. You're not going to be using flux core wire on that stuff. You'll need stainless wire of the appropriate type for the base metal, and gas shielding. Out of my league, I'm afraid. And I can't even ask the pros at work as it's a structural welding shop doing big buildings and such. :(

But I do believe it's doable with small 120V welders when working light gauge SS. :)

And yes, you'll need something more than Wayfarer sunglasses. :P
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby kurz » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:10 pm

well why not go for welding SS? For me I do not have enogh space to stor all things...

BUT: I guess the most working hours will not be welding but preparing/cutting etc the parts. To weld them together could be the easiest maybe.

So IF you haf cut all pieces in parts and placed exactely... the welding maybe would be not too expensive...
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby whgoffrn » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:48 pm

Right that's why I chose not to go that route ....i would have had to cut cardboard pieces first to use as a guide to then cut and grind out 4 to 6 more stainless steel plates to have welded in place ...im sure in the end it would have had a more professional custom look to it but I didn't care about that...with all the extra cutting fabricating drilling and welding I chose the cheap and easy method of having a stainless lip / pipe welded into the corner so a vice can add the extra support.... they won't get used much only if I know I'm going out for a few hours....like this trip to the keys im considering going out to the islamorada humps to fish for dolphin and it's 15 miles out (15 miles back) so if weather kicks up it could potentially take me 3 + hours of decent size following seas (the area our boats rudder systems suffer the most) so will snap them on for something like that but a short hop to the sandbar or alligator reef I doubt it
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby whgoffrn » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:50 pm

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Overall I'm very happy with how the rudders and brackets turned out ....the white oak rudders are much stronger I accidentally broke one of my oem fiberglass ones showing my girlfriend the difference ....and the brackets with the lip welded on will hold the vice grips perfectly ....i chose to use 4 pieces of 80lb braid to be my "breakaway" which I may cut 1 off to make it a total of 240lbs because even when I eventually get around to drilling out backing plates these stronger boards run the risk of ripping the grudgeon out if grounded regardless if the grudgeon is bolted to the outboard via steel plate....so I'm using several pieces of braid to hold it down yet will still break if under too much load (grounded)
... anyone looking for a rudder upgrade contact jo woodworks 180 bux a piece out of Texas approx 4 week turn around ...im very pleased with my decision and wouldn't say so if not..
As far as backing plates I don't intend to go to the exumas till next summer and I don't feel like I need them for the upcoming trip to the keys (at least I hope not) ....i found an easy way to do it (next fall and winter) the backing plates are easiest to do from the Inside drilled out steel plates from behind the bolts go the outboard bolts....which will not allow the grudgeons to rip out of the hull ....

My first outing will be next weekend and if the water is clean enough (the river has been up and logs and debris in the river) I will test the fiorentino drogue to see if I can steer with it or not .... I'll try the drogue out first on flat calm water before trying in the keys
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Ixneigh » Wed May 16, 2018 8:03 pm

I'd like the guy to fab me 2 rudders for my M model. I think the Ida rudders flex under sail.
I can cover them with fiber glass myself.
Pm me his contact Info please?
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby whgoffrn » Thu May 17, 2018 5:56 am

www.jowoodworks.com he said he usually makes rudders out of mohaganny but I chose white oak as i believe it's a stronger wood
I'm not sure how one goes about strengthening the brackets on an m model and also how to fabricate backing plates
The m model rudders are recessed into the hull aren't they... that would post a real challenge to strengthen I would think....ive not looked up close at them
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby Ixneigh » Thu May 17, 2018 1:06 pm

About 10 plys of biax in the inside of the transom, then a slab of stainless for a backing plate. Then get the M model lower rudder pivot done in double thickness stainless.

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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby sailboatmike » Thu May 17, 2018 3:59 pm

Ixneigh wrote:About 10 plys of biax in the inside of the transom, then a slab of stainless for a backing plate. Then get the M model lower rudder pivot done in double thickness stainless.

Ix


With the rudder pivots its about spreading the load of greater area, a great example of this is caterpillar tracks on heavy equipment, because of their area (length times width) the actual ground pressure is very low allowing 50 and 60 ton equipment to move over soft boggy ground without sinking in, just look at the world war 2 tank the T34, the wide tracks allowed it to move over snow and mud without sinking and getting bogged, the actual ground pressure was far less than a car in a vehicle 10 times as heavy, snow shoes are another classic example.

So while strengthening the transom would be helpful, making a wooden backing plate maybe 3 inches wide and using a plate or fender washers would greatly reduce the localized load on the transom (well its the same load spread over a greater area). You could run some fiberglass over it if you want just to neaten it up.
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby whgoffrn » Thu May 17, 2018 5:20 pm

I still haven't taken the boat out yet to report back if the drogue works to steer or not ....got busy closed on house and moving so will be tied up with that for about 2 more weeks then I'll take the boat out and report back on the drogue
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Re: Weak links in the macgregor

Postby whgoffrn » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:28 pm

Drogue did work steering in calm flat water when tested ....I leave for islamorada in 2 days and at some point will try to test its steering abilities out in waves and chop while under sail ....but under motor 2 weeks ago it steered amazingly well
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