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Rounding up

A forum for discussion of how to rig and tune your boat or kicker to achieve the best sailing performance.

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Rounding up

Postby bobflshmn » Mon May 14, 2018 6:37 pm

Well I have searched the forum with no avail.
While really getting to learn what our X is capable of, my daughter and I discovered that the boat seems to round up much quicker than expected. We work to maintain a heal between 15 and 25 degrees, but this past weekend discovered that much past 30, she tends to round up. Granted we are all about safety, but a gust to 40 and back to 25 is more than acceptable to us. Clean up the grandkids below later!
I recently noticed I am to loose on the stays so will make adjustments base on what I have found on the forum. Could this be attributing to the boat rounding up so soon? Our D would run at 40 degrees all day long, and would only round up somewhere beyond 45. The boat also does not track well, we are constantly steering, which is great for the grandkids, not so great for grandpa trying to relax.
I also noticed there is a significant amount of play in the rudders. Question; should there be more play than is required to pivot? Should there be some type of filler material between the rudders and the brackets? There does not seem to be significant wear on the surface of the rudders where they pivot.
Thanks
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Re: Rounding up

Postby NiceAft » Mon May 14, 2018 7:45 pm

Bob,

When the boat rounds up, are you sailing with just the main, or is there a jib also? The head sail will help balance out the boat. You also might let out some mainsheet.

Ray
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Re: Rounding up

Postby Hamin' X » Mon May 14, 2018 8:09 pm

Could be one of several things, or a combination. Too much mast rake (moves CE aft); boomvang not tight enough (allows boom to ride up and belly the sail); backstay not tight enough (mainsail not flat enough); not enough headsail out, or not reefed enough on the main (boat out of balance); mainsheet to tight for conditions (not spilling enough air). Probably more, but my brain is lost and I'm not sure where it went. :|

~Rich
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Re: Rounding up

Postby whgoffrn » Mon May 14, 2018 9:10 pm

I have noticed similar on my 99x and I believe it's just how the boat was built as a safety mechanism due to such a flat transom at the stern ....speaking with bwy about reducing rake I was advised not to and just to live with this limitation of the boat as it sails like crap at 40 degrees anyway due to its hull design ..... I have one of those guages to check tension strength and tightening them to 300lbs a piece didn't help a bit at rounding up.... mine rounds up shortly after 35 when a gust hits and pushes it to 40
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Re: Rounding up

Postby sailboatmike » Tue May 15, 2018 4:19 am

A couple of things here, if your running original bagged out sails it will really hurt your performance just because you can't get the main flat enough to deflect the wind.

Having the vang on, but not tight tight will allow the leech to twist at the head which will also depower the sail

Bringing on the backstay will also tighten the main and deflect the wind, a good 2 to 1 system would be handy the stock 1 to 1 that comes with the boat is not great on such a stiff mast and I find it difficult to get the backstay just tight never mind get some bend in the mast.

Get rid of the slop between the rudder and the brackets, I use old CD's, they space just right, I have one on either side of the rudder.

Of course less rake on the mast is helpful bringing the COE forward, I recon about 2 degrees is about right

The more we heel the less grip the boat has on the water due to the rudder(s) not being as deep and the keel being on a angle and not as deep, the lack of keel area on the X doesn't help a great deal, so playing the main through the gusts is a must.

Most importantly the X sails best at around 22 degrees, so much over that is just slowing you down
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Re: Rounding up

Postby Sumner » Tue May 15, 2018 9:58 am

Image

I made a traveler and added it to the boat .....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-14.html

... and it has helped a lot in stronger winds to keep the boat a little flatter and the rounding up down. In heavy winds the boat seems to settle in around 20-23 degrees if the sails are balanced. When I got the sails from Martin they had one reef point that was about the height of the second reef point (higher one) on the stock sails. That worked 90% of the time and he said he would always add another one at no charge if I wanted.

After having a problem with the boat rounding up a couple times on the Bahama trip in high winds I sent the main back and he added a higher reef point. We have been out with it twice now. Once on the Flaming Gorge trip and they last fall on the Lake Powell trip. In heavy winds on those trips 25+ kts I could really tell the difference and we were able to control the boat better with no rounding up.

I'd recommend a traveler and a higher reef point if one wants to push the limits more,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

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Re: Rounding up

Postby bobflshmn » Tue May 15, 2018 11:24 am

Thanks all for the input. Let me break down a few things.
1. No boom vang at this time. With the lazy jacks, and sail pack I don't know enough about a boom vang to consider it at this time.
2. Back stay is just tight enough to keep the slop out, not cranking on the turn buckle.
3. Running with main and 110 jib. Main is blown out, new upgraded main just arrived from BWY. Will install this weekend! Yeah
4. I have noticed if running on main only, forget about tacking. I need a minimum 1/3 head sail for the boat to tack. However I have not noticed reduced performance in high winds, so that is a good thing.
5. I have never reefed the main I usually just let in out. I will be installing a single line reefing system with the new main so I can actually do this.
6. I like the idea of using CDs for spacer, my daughters have some music I can't stand so inventory is on hand! Shouldn't leave your stuff at dad's house when you visit!
7. I need to check the rake, not sure I have any! As for pre-bend there is nothing at this time because the side stays are way to loose. I will correct that this weekend as well, and set the 94 degree the manual recommends.
Thanks all for the advice, I will let you know how she sails after the changes.
Bob
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Re: Rounding up

Postby Herschel » Tue May 15, 2018 10:03 pm

No boom vang at this time. With the lazy jacks, and sail pack I don't know enough about a boom vang to consider it at this time.

The boom vang is just a line with blocks at both ends to attach near the foot of the mast and to the boom to keep the boom from rising so much going down wind or to help flatten out the mainsail going up wind. the attached pic shows it rigged even though not actually sailing with the main at the time. It is a simple rig. Requires a bail on the mast and the boom to attach the shackles to.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/ronstan- ... ecordNum=2
Image
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