DF90 Reinforcement and questions

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Seapup
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Re: DF90 Reinforcement and questions

Post by Seapup »

I looked at the jack plate manufacturer's pdf document and it finally answered for me *why* a jack plate is supposed to help improve performance.
I am not expecting any performance increase over a properly installed motor on the transom, possibly even a decrease.

My reasons:

1. It moves the engine back for more room since I don't use a rear seat and have a deck that runs the whole way back (main reason).
2. I planned on using aluminum plates and wedges, this takes the place of both.
3. In theory I can keep the motor up high for smooth water performance and shallow draft in the rivers off the bay, but if I end up forced to make a rough water crossing I can lower it down to minimize cavitation.

I am not recommending one, thats just my rationale.
I mention stern lift because it is strongly cautioned against in the 26M manual (and I assume the 26x manual ?)....
It is.

Funny you mention it, I am giving one a try. I plan to use with caution, much like the jack plate.

We hung the motor this afternoon. The setback leaves a nice amount of clearance, so that part is positive. Also the transom didn't crack on the ridiculously bumpy 60 mile drive home so that was also positive.

Image

My "flush mount" controls arrived today. The controls that came are the standard binnnacle mount I have and not flush sidemount kit as advertised, so will have to get that straightened out. I may be making a custom binnacle mount controlbox yet. :x
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davidbourne
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Re: DF90 Reinforcement and questions

Post by davidbourne »

Congrats on the install! That must feel good. Get that baby in the water soon and let us know how she works.

I can't remember what you had on there before. I hope you see improvements. All that space is great for sure. That's a big cowling and there is plenty of room, it seems.
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Seapup
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Re: DF90 Reinforcement and questions

Post by Seapup »

Congrats on the install! That must feel good. Get that baby in the water soon and let us know how she works.

I can't remember what you had on there before. I hope you see improvements. All that space is great for sure. That's a big cowling and there is plenty of room, it seems.
Thanks, It felt pretty good that nothing broke/cracked and everything made it bouncing home. I hit a set of RR tracks too hard and thought I was going to break the trailer axle. I wanted to mention that I have modified my trailer (Cut off the original stop/winch/ladder and moved everything further up the tongue) so the boat sits forwards on the trailer about 18" for more tongue weight. Something to consider.

I have a ways to go before I would call it installed :?

I now have 2 sets of topmount binnacle controls since it came with one and the one I bought on ebay was listed incorrectly as flushmount. I don't fee like dropping money on another control if I don't have to, so I am going to try and custom fit the topmount controls as a flush side mount near the top of the pedestal. The clearance next to the steering rack is tight, but I think it will work with a little patience and modification. I want to move the pedestal up and back and add new side panels anyways, so its just a bit more work.

This is what the topmount control looks like without the cover, I am thinking it will just fit inside the top corner of the console and work as a flushmount with the lever extending over the top of the pedestal. If it does there will be no more bending over to reach the throttle.

Image




I have to work late the next few days, so water test probably won't happen until next week.
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Crikey
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Re: DF90 Reinforcement and questions

Post by Crikey »

SeaPup, that's a nice big Suzuki you've got there. Also, I see your'e running a pair of Dolefins with your jack-plate which must enhance the rear lift even further, under power.
Actually, in the photo the level of the cavitation plate looks considerably higher than the bottom of the hull. Was that an early installation picture?
(plus girl :P )
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Seapup
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Re: DF90 Reinforcement and questions

Post by Seapup »

SeaPup, that's a nice big Suzuki you've got there. Also, I see your'e running a pair of Dolefins with your jack-plate which must enhance the rear lift even further, under power.
Its a stingray hydrofioil, I am looking forward to trying it both with and without to see what effect it has. You have a foil on your boat don't you?

Actually, in the photo the level of the cavitation plate looks considerably higher than the bottom of the hull. Was that an early installation picture?
(plus girl )
Yeah, We mounted it with the jackplate the whole way up since the trim switch/battery is not connected yet. Once I get the cables run and trim switch hooked up I will get it aligned with the hull. In that pic the hood and sidecovers are just propped in place.
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Re: DF90 Reinforcement and questions

Post by Crikey »

Seapup wrote: Its a stingray hydrofioil, I am looking forward to trying it both with and without to see what effect it has. You have a foil on your boat don't you?
Yes, A Stingray III Senior. I think it has worked out fine!
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Seapup
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Re: DF90 Reinforcement and questions

Post by Seapup »

A few updates. Progress went slow and tedious but I am ready to test out the motor soon. Seemed like everything took 10 steps more than it should. The topmount binnacle control worked out the way I hoped. I will have to see if it gets in the way sailing but so far I think I am rally going to like it. Now more bending over to work the throttle which should be really nice maneuvering in marinas.

Image

I spent forever moving the pedestal around deciding what worked best. Moving it and running through the longer stainless bolts was tedious. Finally decided on up 3" and back about 5". With it in its new position I can stand without leaning over or use the back of the stock seat as a nice perch/leaning post while motoring. When cruising I can now recline back in the corner of the bench with my feet propped up and easily reach the wheel which is my favorite spot. The front of the cockpit has a bit more space too.

Image

With the motor back I am thinking about adding similar setbacks to the rudders and building a new deck that wraps around the full width of the stern. I am going to see how the motor works out in its new position first though. Hopefully I can give it a test this week after work. I still need to make a quick release mount to keep the motor centered while sailing.

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Re: DF90 Reinforcement and questions

Post by mastreb »

Seapup, if the purpose of moving the rudders back is so that they'll clear your rap-around deck when you pull them up, why not just leave a slot in the deck that the rudders can pull up through? Much easier, and that will keep the motor from flopping over when trailering.
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Re: DF90 Reinforcement and questions

Post by Keel_Hauled »

How did the jack plates and set back work out for everybody ? I like the idea of having extra room in the back but not if it tears my transom out.... I hope to hear it worked out really well !
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Seapup
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Re: DF90 Reinforcement and questions

Post by Seapup »

Seapup, if the purpose of moving the rudders back is so that they'll clear your rap-around deck when you pull them up, why not just leave a slot in the deck that the rudders can pull up through? Much easier, and that will keep the motor from flopping over when trailering.
Thanks for the suggestion. I considered the notch idea when I made the deck, but you need to make it a V to allow for turning with rudders up which greatly limits the useable space. Moving the whole rudder assembly back would realign the steering to stock and provide a support for a larger deck as well as steering linkage room under the deck. I was considering bolting up a section of 6" square aluminum tube on each side of the transom like a jackplate for the rudders, but will probably put that on hold, which Ill vent why in a minute.
How did the jack plates and set back work out for everybody ? I like the idea of having extra room in the back but not if it tears my transom out.... I hope to hear it worked out really well !
So far so good, I really like it. There is substantially more room getting around the larger motor now than with the smaller motor before. With multiple variables I can't say what is responsible for trim, but a tiny amount makes a huge difference. Before it didn't do much of anything. I think the extra leverage, hydrofoil, large prop and empty boat are all acting right now. In the water the motor acts like its fixed solid and the boat levers off it. Trim a little and the bow goes right up or down accordingly.

The transom seems to be holding up fine. There are no stress cracks and nothing has shifted or loosened back there. I was a little rough on it hoping if the transom was going to crack it would happen before the season. The plate spreads the load out more than most outer plates people are using so in my uneducated non engineer analysis I think it will be OK. So far I am glad I went with it. Thursday was the first time out, wind was 15-20 and waves were 3-4 at 7 seconds according to NDBC for where I was. I had a bare empty boat with just 2 people and 4 gal of gas. Being empty the 4 blade 13.75 inch was under propped and revved over 6k a little past 3/4 throttle empty. As far as the jackplate something to keep in mind, for every inch of setback you are supposed to raise the motor about .5 inch to compensate for the offset angle and water lifting behind the stern. I had the cav plate a little above the stern and the motor was buried. I moved it up about 2" (back where it was in the first picture) when I got home and will try again.

As others have said the difference with the larger motor is quite a change. Docking put it in gear and it moves, no more revving to change direction. 1700rpm was 7mph both full and empty ballast. At 3k ran 14mph full ballast, same as honda wot, but sounded like honda at 2k. 3/4 throttle full ballast (didn't check rpms as we were crashing into/against waves hard) was 24mph and much faster than necessary. Kate asked if there were pirates she had missed and I was trying to outrun as she was soaked. Emptied ballast and shot over a few waves running with the wind and max on the gps said 28 mph. From the sound of the motor (or lack of sound) I guessed I was at about 4k so was very surprised to see it at 6k. With the old motor the waves would have been pushing me around and trying to keep a straight line would have been difficult. With this I just held a straight line and powered over them vs being pushed. So far I am very happy with the choice.

After washing the boat up from testing it was late so I left it in the driveway. Friday I got a ticket from the city saying I had to move the boat. The neighbor called first thing Friday. I had the same issues both last spring and again in the fall while working on it. City code says it can't be in your driveway more than 24 hours. They only enforce it if a neighbor complains. I live a half mile from the ocean and there is a boat on every block, normally its a non existent law. I get the one cranky old spinster nextdoor that has a nothing better to do. In past she has reported "dangerous trees" and "diverted runoff" (both dismissed). Officer was nice at least. I asked how long it had to be out of the driveway before it could return so I could work on it. Could I just drag it around the block? He told me to submit a written letter saying I couldn't move it without repairs and he would grant me an extension. So I am just going to finish my existing projects and put it in the water for the season.

Now I need the rain to stop so I can finish my interior, changing things up a bit. Here is a pic since I know how holes in fiberglass make some people cringe :P This was about halfway through the cutting.

Image
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Re: DF90 Reinforcement and questions

Post by Crikey »

Seapup, some nice work in progress, that you've got going there! Are those ceramic tiles on the floor of the cabin?
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Re: DF90 Reinforcement and questions

Post by Keel_Hauled »

Great to hear the offset seems to be working out...I might give it a go after I finish the 15 other boat related projects I have en queued already...

I am curious about the flooring in that last pic and what all the big holes are for :? What kind of flooring are you using there ? I had thought to use real teak in mine but the cost is so ridiculous that I'm probably going to go with some vinyl from Home Depot that looks like teak for the interior flooring. I did figure out that I can find and buy used teak furniture for next to nothing so I've begun to acquire a good bit of that and should have enough for the cockpit floor, swim platform and some cabinets for the galley 8)

Good luck with all your mods, I hope to see them all in the mods sections soon!


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