Battery replacement

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DaveB
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Re: Battery replacement

Post by DaveB » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:14 pm

Only time you can get fumes is when you cook your battery. You can also cook a gel/closed cell battery.
You will know long before if your battery is failing. Hook them up proper to prevent over charge.
Ck your wet cells for water.
Dave


Boblee wrote:
Currently have one marine starter and one marine deep cycle. Reading some comments here would I be better to replace with 2 deep cycle given how easy it is to turn over the etech 60?
I would or at least multipurpose (marine) type but would steer away from wet cell vented batteries due to fumes below when charging.

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seahouse
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Re: Battery replacement

Post by seahouse » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:59 pm

Currently have one marine starter and one marine deep cycle. Reading some comments here would I be better to replace with 2 deep cycle given how easy it is to turn over the etech 60?
Absolutely yes, this would be considered a "best practice"! The deep cycle batteries of this size range are more than sufficient to deliver the cranking amperage needed to start your E-tec. And they will take a lot more discharge cycles than a starting battery – so better for reliability and longevity.

Unless you are having some corrosion and gassing issues with your current flooded lead acid batteries (I haven't, and as Dave says, you shouldn't), there would be no reason to go to another technology. So far, no technology has beaten the standard deep cycle flooded lead acid battery for performance and longevity per dollar; (for example, a 50% greater price gets you much less than 50% increase in capacity). I've been keeping an eye on the technologies for a while now.

There are advantages to the other technologies, though, like; less “maintenance” (which means you don't add water... or can't add water if you needed to, which is not a good thing for long-term reliability); they won't spill (I haven't cracked a case or spilled a battery so far, though); freeze resistance (keep them charged and no battery will freeze); and less internal discharge (again, just charge occasionally when storing them and it won't matter), if you want to pay a premium to have those “advantages”. I don't – I have other things I'd rather spend the money on.

Again, if you buy a pair of batteries, ask the store if you can have two consecutive serial numbers. Battery construction in the factory varies in many ways as production progresses – you are more likely to get a good match this way.

Great idea about having the portable pack available, it will easily start the E-tec alone– they don't need much.

-B. :wink:

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Tomfoolery
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Re: Battery replacement

Post by Tomfoolery » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:41 am

innervations wrote:Reading some comments here would I be better to replace with 2 deep cycle given how easy it is to turn over the etech 60?
The Etec 60 is more like a motorcycle engine than anything else. Ever see the size of motorcycle battery, even for a big engine?

My last boat had 3 batteries, and the 3-cylinder Yanmar would start effortlessly on a single group 24 deep-cycle. Or a pair of them in parallel, which is what the house system was, and what I normally started and ran on. The third was a backup. All were kept up with a 3-channel multi-stage charger, but the house batteries were also charged when the engine was running (simple but effective - I was the energy management system). Those two batteries would run a cold-plate system (augmented with a couple bags of ice for long trips, to relieve some load), nav system, auto helm, VHF, and FM radio for 12 hours at a clip and still spin the diesel like it was a lawnmower engine. No solar.

For a Mac, I'd just use a deep-cycle, or a pair (or more) if spending time away from power. And a little kicker unit for emergencies sounds like an efficient use of space, leaving more for house batteries. 8)

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Re: Battery replacement

Post by Boblee » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:16 am

Only time you can get fumes is when you cook your battery. You can also cook a gel/closed cell battery.
You will know long before if your battery is failing. Hook them up proper to prevent over charge.
Ck your wet cells for water.
Dave
Someone forgot to tell the two batteries that have blown when hit with sparks while charging, they wern't cooked/cooking prior but were certainly useless after :o , on both occasions they were on small chargers one had tops off and the other didn't.
The first one I just forgot and sprayed with sparks from a grinder and the second I didn't know it was charging, AFAIK any charging produces hydrogen gas, very careful now though.

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seahouse
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Re: Battery replacement

Post by seahouse » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:15 am

True the charging process produces hydrogen, but compared to an overcharging battery the rate and quantities are small, and the dispersal rate is rapid.

The caps should not be removed from a battery to charge it; not any battery made in the last few decades, anyway... to... prevent... explosions! :cry: (And to reduce acid misting on the top of the battery).

Yeah, if you're going to shower your battery in sparks, then you might also want to look at the sealed batteries, and hope that its valve doesn't happen to lift when you are showering it with sparks – I would expect a possibly even bigger explosion in that scenario!

-B. :wink:

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Re: Battery replacement

Post by Boblee » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:43 am

Certainly would have made a mess in a boat and did in the sheds it happened in, for sure our batteries wouldn't be showered in sparks but sure am careful around them now, think it said on the battery to remove the caps when charging but a while ago now.

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Re: Battery replacement

Post by Jane » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:20 am

Been using 2 deep cycle 27 series as house batteries with an onboard Dytek 2-bank charger bought many years ago. Don't have any knowledge about battery monitoring devices and have always wondered how I can tell if the Dytek is working properly.

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seahouse
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Re: Battery replacement

Post by seahouse » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:05 am

Yeah Bob - newer batteries have flame-arresters in the caps, so they are left on; older ones didn't. It occurs to me that the valves on the sealed batteries might have the same thing on the relief opening to prevent explosion.

Jane - if batteries you charged with an early, wound transformer-type charger lasted several years (or for a length of time you were happy with), then the charger (and your use patterns) is likely working properly.

However, the newer multi- stage chargers will be an improvement in terms of things such as battery life, charge time, power consumption, and weight.

- Brian. :wink:

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133bhp
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Re: Battery replacement

Post by 133bhp » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:59 pm

Lots of batts now use calcium in the construction, I see varying reports they need 14.7+ volts for charging - anyone a definte guide/source for charging? Twice stranded 1 mile off the coast and now a expert in pull starting, I have bought one.

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Re: Battery replacement

Post by Boblee » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:26 pm

I got caught with two u beaut calcium/calcium batteries years ago not because they need a higher voltage but because once down they won't recover with alternators or normal charging, in this case they do need a higher charge to bring them back, for that you need a smart charger with recondition mode or higher voltage at low amps both mine failed within 6 months and hardly any work.
Not all Calcium batteries are like this the ones we have now are multipurpose and can go low, lots of different batteries around now.

innervations
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Re: Battery replacement

Post by innervations » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:01 pm

Both my starter and house batteries are on their last legs due to my poor charging managment :? Cheap AC charger unit used to keep them topped up is likely culprit. Am in process of buying a new Ctek charger with integration to my solar panel as well as AC when in marina berth.

Anyway, have to get two new batteries before this weekend if possible. Based on posts on this board I am thinking best to get two matching deep cycle Type 27 batteries. I have Etec 60 which does not seem to require a starter battery with large cranking current.

I have been looking at the Optima D27M http://www.batteriesdirect.com.au/shop/ ... ttery.html but they are expensive in Oz. Happy to pay if they are as good as the sales pitch states :D

Any experience with the optimas or other recommendations? Particularly from people in Australia?

Have been very interested in DaveB comments about 6volt batteries in series but did not wish to change the current location and bracing too much. Rather just drop in two equivalent size batteries (type 27).

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yukonbob
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Re: Battery replacement

Post by yukonbob » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:04 pm

seahouse wrote:
...freeze resistance (keep them charged and no battery will freeze); ...

-B. :wink:
Just skimming through and saw this...wanna bet? :P

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seahouse
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Re: Battery replacement

Post by seahouse » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:34 pm

yukonbob wrote:
seahouse wrote:
...freeze resistance (keep them charged and no battery will freeze); ...

-B. :wink:
Just skimming through and saw this...wanna bet? :P
Well I guess if you get to minus 90F (the freezing point of the acid in a charged flooded lead acid battery) where you live they will. Any body here live where it gets that cold? Does it get that low where you are Bob? (Wind chill does not affect a battery).

-B. :wink:

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seahouse
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Re: Battery replacement

Post by seahouse » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:52 pm

Assuming the lowest temperatures ever recorded on earth at various locations, the only place that a charged battery will freeze is in Antarctica.

Thanks for pointing that out, Bob. I stand corrected and apologize for having mislead all the Macgregor forum members who sail and store their batteries outdoors in Antarctica. During record-setting cold temperatures. :D

-B. :wink:

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yukonbob
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Re: Battery replacement

Post by yukonbob » Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:01 am

seahouse wrote:Assuming the lowest temperatures ever recorded on earth at various locations, the only place that a charged battery will freeze is in Antarctica.

Thanks for pointing that out, Bob. I stand corrected and apologize for having mislead all the Macgregor forum members who sail and store their batteries outdoors in Antarctica. During record-setting cold temperatures. :D

-B. :wink:
So with the freezing point of a charged LA battery is about -70'c (-90'f) fully charged (assuming you didn't just top it up and the solution hasn't had time to diffuse) and the average discharged battery freezing at -10'c (14'f) thats quite the gradient...and unless you're outside in that temperature range every couple of days testing to ensure it is fully charged (this seems realistic) or leaving a battery on a continuous float charge all winter...which will cause corrosion in the electrodes which will result in premature failure...and being well within those temperature ranges here in the north (coldest in the Yukon is -63'c (81'f)) you'd have to be right on top of that testing / charging all winter long, wouldn't ya? Even half that temperature with a 50% charge lets average it out and say -30'c (-22'f) pretty normal in these parts its probably just better to bring inside where its warm :wink: Thanks for the friendly reply captain sarcasm :P

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