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Installing a Ray Marine Tiller Pilot below decks

A forum for discussing boat or trailer repairs or modifications that you have made or are considering.

Moderators: Paul S, tangentair, beene, Heath_Mod, Hamin' X, kmclemore, Catigale

Re: Installing a Ray Marine Tiller Pilot below decks

Postby BOAT » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:19 am

K9Kampers wrote:
Tomfoolery wrote:
BOAT wrote:What's a diode?

A check valve for electric current.


Well, there's that too.
I was gonna say it's a lyrical poem sung twice. For relevance, I'd suggest a nautical diode! :P 8)



Oh, I get it now:

When you've been bestowed
With a large Shipload
Or a Mother in Law
you had torpedoed
Instead of fearing
The Penal Code
Protect your helm
With a proper diode!

Don't risk your abode
If winds overflowed
in seas so fierce
all rudders unbowed
help please radioed
this fearful ode
to no avail
AP did explode
And now I morn
For a proper diode

Alas.
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Re: Installing a Ray Marine Tiller Pilot below decks

Postby Tomfoolery » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:03 am

K9Kampers wrote:
Tomfoolery wrote:
BOAT wrote:What's a diode?

A check valve for electric current.

Well, there's that too.
I was gonna say it's a lyrical poem sung twice. For relevance, I'd suggest a nautical diode! :P 8)

I'm not nearly well-rounded enough to even conceive of that. :D In fact, when the Canadian border agent asked me at the crossing, with the boat in tow for the first MMOR I went to, if I had any bar stock in the car or on the boat, I thought he was asking about steel bars like squares and rounds, used for making stuff. Total vapor lock, with slack-jawed expression to go with it. The admiral had to lean over and tell him we had no booze. Doh! :P

So you can see how my tiny mind works, and it ain't pretty. :|

But in my defense, for 40 years, bar stock has only meant long metal bars of various cross section and size, so it's not like I'm completely a space cadet.
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Re: Installing a Ray Marine Tiller Pilot below decks

Postby MikeFloutier » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:29 am

Haha, thanks guys, I'll initially locate the test switch using blue tack for ease of adjustment. I understand from one of the mod writers that, in the case of the st1000, it runs on about 1/4" after power-off.
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Re: Installing a Ray Marine Tiller Pilot below decks

Postby Catigale » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:36 pm

Tomfoolery wrote:You could probably just use these, which are marketed (on Amazon, at least) for solar panels.

https://www.amazon.com/Akak-Quality-Sch ... =20a+diode

15A and 45V. There's a rule-of-thumb for diode current, but I don't recall what it is. Something like best to not exceed 1/2 rated current for continuous operation, or something like that. The 15A is probably fine alone, but you could always put two in parallel, which will double the current capacity with each one taking half of the current, and it will lower the forward resistance (two resistors in parallel of equal value will have a total of half the resistance). They're cheap at 35 cents each, so no big deal to use two for each direction.

But those actuators are not continuous-duty anyway, with the motor usually bumping the rod in and out in steps when making fine adjustments to the rudder position (at least, my wheel pilot on another boat was that way), so I would think just a single diode in parallel with each limit switch would be fine and last forever. Heat is the enemy, but burping a motor along means current flow only part of the time. And the limit switches are there to prevent running the motor against the hard stops, so they should never see the stalled current.


I was taught to over-rate the PIV by 2x, worst case scenario for diode sizing. That is, calculate the worst case power dissipated and rate the diode 2x higher than that
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Re: Installing a Ray Marine Tiller Pilot below decks

Postby Tomfoolery » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:08 pm

Catigale wrote:
Tomfoolery wrote:You could probably just use these, which are marketed (on Amazon, at least) for solar panels.

https://www.amazon.com/Akak-Quality-Sch ... =20a+diode

15A and 45V. There's a rule-of-thumb for diode current, but I don't recall what it is. Something like best to not exceed 1/2 rated current for continuous operation, or something like that. The 15A is probably fine alone, but you could always put two in parallel, which will double the current capacity with each one taking half of the current, and it will lower the forward resistance (two resistors in parallel of equal value will have a total of half the resistance). They're cheap at 35 cents each, so no big deal to use two for each direction.

But those actuators are not continuous-duty anyway, with the motor usually bumping the rod in and out in steps when making fine adjustments to the rudder position (at least, my wheel pilot on another boat was that way), so I would think just a single diode in parallel with each limit switch would be fine and last forever. Heat is the enemy, but burping a motor along means current flow only part of the time. And the limit switches are there to prevent running the motor against the hard stops, so they should never see the stalled current.


I was taught to over-rate the PIV by 2x, worst case scenario for diode sizing. That is, calculate the worst case power dissipated and rate the diode 2x higher than that

Peak Inverse Voltage rating is 45V, and in actuality shouldn't be more than about 14V (though I'm making some assumptions about transients), so they should be ok there. Rated current (forward) is 15A, which is way more than rated actuator current, not counting locked-rotor current, so they should still be ok. I think. I'm an ME and MatE by education, not an EE, so this is not my first language, even though I do a lot of controls work (not by choice, though). :|
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Re: Installing a Ray Marine Tiller Pilot below decks

Postby MikeFloutier » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:44 am

Wanted to say a big THANK YOU to you all as I've now got my below-deck install of my £192 Raymarine st2000 autopilot pretty much finished and up and running.

I have to say that it is a joy to use, the issue of ram travel limiting has turned out to be a non-issue as the Mac is so easy to balance. If for any reason, eg very low speed, the pilot can't hold the dialed-in course, it's obvious from the wheel position and I just go to standby or disconnect.

On the subject of connect/disconnect, BOAT your patent ball and socket joint is a dream, just have to remember to CENTRE the ram before disconnect so I know where it is :)

Thanks again, this makes longer trips such a pleasure, btw the £10 remote fobs work fine!
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Re: Installing a Ray Marine Tiller Pilot below decks

Postby MikeFloutier » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:03 am

Just wanted to put in another plug (positive review) for the BOAT below-deck AP install.

I've just completed my first overnight coastal trip - Falmouth to Fowey and back single-handed - and it was a dream!

Coming back was around 25 miles close-reaching with good wind. I had my one reef in and a few rolls on the genoa.

The balance was perfect with the wheel pretty much centered - apart from gusts when, courtesy of the AP, I was able to hang out the side to keep the heel down to 20 deg (clipped on!). I was getting just over 6 kts SOG against a charted 0.2-0.3kt current.

Without the AP the trip would have been quite a chore. I was able to confidently go below with the boat hammering along at a 20-25 deg heel; it's a whole new world.

Total cost was below £250 btw, a totally awesome Mod.

THANK YOU!!
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Re: Installing a Ray Marine Tiller Pilot below decks

Postby kurz » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:18 pm

Hey BOAT, did you realize your gasket so the tille cannot move out of center whyle AP ist not in use?

Have no an customized remote from madman. So I can jug steer with the fob.
I can go down, look to the tiller Arm AP and move it with the remote fob to the right place. So I do not have to squeese under the cockpit. Also can do it with a smartphone.
Looks quite goot so far.
Is to know that this feature has to be ordered separately from madman (he did not charge anythinge for it).
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Re: Installing a Ray Marine Tiller Pilot below decks

Postby BOAT » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:51 am

kurz wrote:Hey BOAT, did you realize your gasket so the tille cannot move out of center whyle AP ist not in use?

Have no an customized remote from madman. So I can jug steer with the fob.
I can go down, look to the tiller Arm AP and move it with the remote fob to the right place. So I do not have to squeese under the cockpit. Also can do it with a smartphone.
Looks quite goot so far.
Is to know that this feature has to be ordered separately from madman (he did not charge anythinge for it).


Hey Kurz,

I did not make the brace to stop the piston because I learned how to center the piston from the helm. Here are the instructions:
On the top of the P60 screen is a linear gauge that shows the position of the rudders - it works even when not connected to the rudders of course, but really it's just showing the position of the piston when dis-connected so just press the left or right button until the rudder indicator is full port or full starboard and then press the opposite button until the indicator is at zero and Viola! Your centered! Drop the arm and away you go!

Sorry guys, I have been out in the ocean for the past five days so I did not have any internet. While we were out there we stopped in at Avalon to try out the restaurants and mix with the real yacht club millionaires - we cleaned up as best we could when we went out so those folks in their long gowns and polo shirts would not stick their noses up at us at the Avalon Grill. (We parked right in front of the Yacht Club):

You probably would not spot us because nowadays all boats at Catalina now are 30 feet or more so as the tiniest boat there we are hard to see, (I'm used to that):

Image

All the other boats on Catalina our size or smaller were little power boats on alphabet row that are tenders for people that live on the island. We were the smallest boat on a real mooring - I have noticed there are less and less small boats out in the open ocean every year, and almost ZERO small sailboats out there - and this trip out we only saw big boats - another sign that the trailer boat market is dying. I think we may be the last of a dying breed. No one seems to want to venture out into the ocean over here anymore unless they are on a big boat.

Oh well, :(

The auto pilot worked flawlessly - not one issue - we hit 23 knot winds blowing across the boat in huge chop. In both sailing and powering in those conditions the pilot worked perfectly.
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Re: Installing a Ray Marine Tiller Pilot below decks

Postby sailboatmike » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:07 pm

I think a lot depends on your location Boat. At my old club we were one of the biggest boats behind a couple of keelers just over 30 feet at my new club we are sort of the standard size trailer sailor, a few 20 odd footers but predominantly 25 to 26 foot trailer sailors and many many 35 foot plus keelers.

The new club is only 6Nm from the old one, who would of thought such a small distance and the whole wack of difference in the population and size of boats that call the area its home port
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Re: Installing a Ray Marine Tiller Pilot below decks

Postby MikeFloutier » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:15 pm

Just need a reality check regarding the track function on my below deck RM st2000 TP.

I've got it wired up to my Garmin GPSMAP550s chartplotter and they're communicating fairly well, afaik.

What I mean is:

1. I set up a route, on the Garmin and put the boat on it,
2. I turn on the track function on the AP,
3. The AP beeps to say that it's found the route,
4. I then tell it to go ahead and follow, then it gets a bit hazy,

5. It wanders gently away from the route, but, before it gets too far away,
6. We arrive in the vicinity of the next waypoint,
7. The AP beeps to tell me it's noticed,
8. It tell it to get on with it and,
9. It turns the boat roughly on the correct heading (I made the turns around 90 degs), however,

10. It starts to wander off again.

11. This happens again at the next waypoint?? Hmm!

Having thought it over, and in the absence of any adjustable settings on either device, I've come to the conclusion that either:

1. Maybe I need to turn off some of the ROUTE NMEA 0183 sentences being sent from the Garmin, or
2. I need to update the Garmin's firmware - there are a huge number of revisions, and, finally, from thinking through the behavior,
3. Perhaps I need to align the AP's compass with the real world. I did hurriedly try this, during the initial sea trial, but, because it doesn't affect Standby or Auto modes, I didn't really do it properly; plus I was still sailing round in circles; a hangover from the deviation calibration, so it was probably pretty inaccurate.

What do you guys think?

Ps I'm also assuming that the Garmin GPSMAP 550s doesn't need a valid compass input to calculate "course to next waypoint" and "XTE"
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