New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

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delevi
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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by delevi » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:53 am

Leon,
I have to disappoint you, this engine being rised does not clear the seat in the low position. I have to lift the seat in order to rise the engine all the way up, then I can lower the seat with no problem. That works for me.
This may work for me too. Enjoy your new engine. Would love to see the speeds you get (without ballst) for 3/4 throttle and WOT. BTW. I think it's really cool to talk to someone who is sailing the Black Sea, since I was born right there on the coast (Odessa.) My family and I left there when I was 8 years old and I haven't been back. I still remember swimming in those waters as a kid and fishing with my dad.

fair winds,
Leon

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beene
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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by beene » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:37 pm

No transom wedges on your M with a 90?

Could be in for a wet ride.

Also will probably hurt your top end speed without them.

BWY installs them on all there 70's as far as I can recall.

G

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delevi
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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by delevi » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:20 am

I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there. Piggy bank for the outboard isn't quite full yet, and there's still the outside chance the BRP guy may get the Etec 50 back to good running shape. Longshot, I know.

L.

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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by Stefan » Sat May 01, 2010 1:29 pm

Didn't hear about transom wedges before, I guess I don't have it. It was installed by a dealer, he didn't suggest anything extra.

I finally was able to open the season here, the weather was far from perfect, wind was about 7-9 mph with some waves, By I decided to test anyway.
With 4 adults plus baby on board and some gear in the bow compartment, but without the daggerboard, it's out for some reinforcement work to be done.

No ballast: WOT 6100-6150 RPM, speed 20.7 knots with the wind, 19.7 knots against the wind.
With ballast: WOT 6000 RPM, speed 19.8 knots with the wind, 18.8 knots against the wind.

Sorry, I forgot to notice the speed at 3/4 throttle. We were in the hurry to get through that, since the empty DB trunk was really spitting some water into my face and partially into the cabin.

I was surprised to see very little change in RPM with and without ballast, only about 100 rpm, I think it's really good.
So, the numbers look fine, just where it should be by the manual. Unfortunately the speed it noticeably slower compare to the :macx: , but some day I'll catch a good weather and test it with 2 onboard, it should look a little better.

Leon,
I noticed the name of your boat earlier, and I figured you should have some relation to russian language. By the way I am still struggling with naming my boat, never done it before, want it to be something special, so, still choosing... I like yours a lot.
I am novice to sailing, but one day I'd love to sail around the Black Sea, hopefully the boat can handle it. For now the short term plan is to sail to Soshi and back, or to Yalta, but that's Ukraine now, and there are some complications with that.
I felt kinda jealous when I saw a few guys form Moscow departing our Marina in Novorossiysk on a Crownline motorboat (it spent the winter here), going to Yalta, when I asked when they'd be back, they said... not this time, they came from Moscow last year, using inland waterways( rivers and Azov sea), now after Yalta they're going to Odessa, then through Dunai river all the way through Europe, to St.Petersburg, and then to Moscow through rivers! WOW, what a trip! Well, may be some day...

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Hamin' X
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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by Hamin' X » Sat May 01, 2010 6:33 pm

Wow, sounds like you have some great sailing and motoring areas, Stefan. As for your speed, the X has a more speed friendly shape than the M and the faster you go, the more noticeable it will be. On the bright side, the M has a more sail friendly design. Enjoy.

~Rich

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vkmaynard
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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by vkmaynard » Sun May 02, 2010 12:11 pm

Stefan,

So is that an improvement over your previous setup? Is the hole shot any better?

That is amazing there is only 100 RPM difference with ballast.

Victor
Last edited by vkmaynard on Mon May 03, 2010 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by Catigale » Mon May 03, 2010 3:35 am

I think you are seeing the effect of being on full plane with that 90...the extra weight has much less impact on top speed...(not to open up the planing definition thread again.... :o :o :o

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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by Stefan » Mon May 03, 2010 9:08 am

I think the hole shot is better, but I'd like to retest the 14x13 prop when I get a chance. Last time I used it was last October.
Improvements are obvious, RPM is in the factory suggested range. With similar load on 3x14x13 prop I was getting 5200-5500, now it's 6000-6150, mission accomplished !
Now I'll try to enjoy more sail friendly design, as Rich put it :) and I'm gonna, just ordered new set of sails from KHsails, and working on daggerboard reinforcements, with an idea to add some wight to it, I've been following that discussion also, it's on my to do list.

regarding the full plane experience, still hard to tell, I remember the feeling on my previous Seadoo speedster jet boat, I really felt the moment I got on plane and then could let down the throttle a little. On my :macm: the experience is far from it, I could not let the throttle down even a little without noticeable speed change. May be the sea condition was the factor, but I am leaning towards the common opinion here that the :macm: can only go near plane mode, the hull does matter. The video Victor posted here is showing it very well, no splashing :macx: had compare to blue :macm:. That :macx: was really on plane.

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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by beene » Sat May 08, 2010 8:34 pm

Stefan wrote: regarding the full plane experience, still hard to tell, I remember the feeling on my previous Seadoo speedster jet boat, I really felt the moment I got on plane and then could let down the throttle a little. On my :macm: the experience is far from it, I could not let the throttle down even a little without noticeable speed change. May be the sea condition was the factor, but I am leaning towards the common opinion here that the :macm: can only go near plane mode, the hull does matter. The video Victor posted here is showing it very well, no splashing :macx: had compare to blue :macm:. That :macx: was really on plane.
:macm: can only go NEAR plane mode :?:

http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u119 ... 010033.flv

That has not been my experience at all.
I can get out of the hole an on top in seconds.
Then throttle back and enjoy the reduced fuel/noise/wear and tear.
I was not at full throttle in that video either.
Video was taken by Highlander on Lake Simcoe in Ontario Canada.
Aprox evevation 700 feet ASL

A :macm: does not have a sufficient transom angel to allow for a proper plane angel without transom wedges.

I believe even Victor has them on his Suzi 90 :macx: install.

With the wedges on my :macm: I have no probs getting on plane.
When I tilt up, even a little bit........
- loss of speed
- increased spray out to sides of boat
- boat starts pushing water instead of planing
- engine rpm's drop
- bow rises
- can't see where I am going while remaining seated at the helm

Pics of install
Image
Image
Image


G

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vkmaynard
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Re: First Wakeboarding Outing Yesterday

Post by vkmaynard » Mon May 17, 2010 6:21 am

We had our first wakeboarding outing yesterday on the new motor. The kids finally got a solid ride.

The Suzuki did not even break a sweat doing 18 MPH @ 4200 RPM were as the Honda would be running WOT (5500 RPM) while pulling at 14.5 to 15 MPH.

Goal met.

Victor

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Re: First Wakeboarding Outing Yesterday

Post by DaveB » Mon May 17, 2010 2:43 pm

You keep posting these performances and useing wording like (Break a sweat, I sweat every time I try to get my Honda 50 on semi plane) I may have to cash in my Piggy Bank for a 90!
Dave
vkmaynard wrote:We had our first wakeboarding outing yesterday on the new motor. The kids finally got a solid ride.

The Suzuki did not even break a sweat doing 18 MPH @ 4200 RPM were as the Honda would be running WOT (5500 RPM) while pulling at 14.5 to 15 MPH.

Goal met.

Victor

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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by darrenj » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:08 am

Sorry to revive an old thread but I thought it would be good to have my information as part of this existing thread rather than a new one.

I found a good deal on a 2012 DF90A and took the plunge. Here is a bit of info that others considering installing the same motor might find useful.
Thank you Victor and everyone else for all the info you provided in this thread. Additional thanks to Victor for responding to my questions via PM. It took all the guess work out of installing a DF90A on my 26X.

If you install the engine interface cable to get engine info on your chart plotter be sure to get one with a software version that is not 2.7. Version 2.7 has a known bug with fuel flow measurement. Full info on how to get it working can be found here: http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-elec ... ne-13.html

As mentioned in previous threads the Analogue tach is not perfect.
Our tach shows correct RPM compared to interface at idle (700 rpm). When tach shows 2000 RPM interface is 2050. When tach shows 6100 RPM interface shows 6300.

My prop is the Suzuki 14 inch blades * 13 pitch that came with the motor (had to ask for it as they would have included a prop more suited for a lighter boat by default).

My boat has bottom paint.

6 Degree transom wedges.

Just finished breaking the motor in and put in to do a long weekend trip (loaded for bear) and did a speed run to see if we were propped right.
Weight wise we had the following:
Empty ballast.
Myself (225 pounds), my wife (???), my 12 year old daughter and her friend (115 pounds each).
50 litres of gas (12 Gallons)
55 Litres of water on board in a bladder hooked up to pressurized water system.
Mast was up. 1 anchor with 20 feet of chain and 150 feet of rode.
A large cooler full of ice, water and pop. Food for the weekend. Two crab traps and all gear for them. Two fishing rods and tackle. Full kitchen (wallace stove\heater with 4 gallons of fuel, smaller gas burner, small rail mounted BBQ with 4 1 pound propane tanks, tons of cutlery, plates, bowles etc). 4 sleeping bags and pillows.
Full enclosure. Swim deck over steering linkage.
Conditions were: slight chop and slight wind on the nose.

Max speed was 23 MPH at 5300 RPM.
The kids were on the bow and we stayed dry in the cockpit, the spray was mid-ship.
I was a bit worried we were over propped.

On the return trip all the same as above but with ballast in:
Conditions were flat and no wind.
Max speed was 20.5 MPH at 5100 RPM.
I was surprised our speed was so close to unballasted. The kids were on the bow and the spray was much worse, towards the front of the boat, and spray was getting into the cockpit. Friends traveling with us took some pictures and we were definitely bow heavy with the kids up front and ballast in.

Since I was a bit worried that the boat was over propped I decided to try a speed run the next day at a local lake with the boat as light as possible (Wake board configuration).
What was on the boat:
Anchor with chain and rode, mandatory safety gear such as flares etc, 5 Gallons of fuel.
The mast was off (not just down, it was left on the lawn at home). I was the only one on board.
So it was basically stock with the mast off.
Max speed was 32 MPH at 6300 RPM. Conditions were pretty much flat with just a hint of wind. Just barely made 6300 RPM and only in one direction. The other direction was 6200 RPM at 30.5 to 31 MPH.
Best speed was with motor tilted up slightly (trim gauge showed 25%). Trimmed all the way down I lost 2 MPH. Adjusting trim did not impact boat angle much if any. Given that I am not sure the Transom wedges are needed on my boat but figured it was better to have them just in case.

Given all the above I am pretty happy with the prop and the engine is performing pretty much exactly as I had hoped. It is actually fast than I though it would be in the mast off configuration. When I plugged my numbers into the prop calculator here: http://www.mercuryracing.com/propellers ... ulator.php
I was expecting a top speed of no more than 28 MPH with the 13 pitch prop.

The Suzuki prop must actually be more than 13 pitch or have cup or other characteristics that make it faster than its calculated max because when I put my actual numbers in I have prop slip of negative 5. :)

Prop pitch = 13
Gear Ration = 2.59
Engine RPM = 6300
Actual Speed = 31.4 (I hit 32 but it was only one direction, I was able to sustain 31.4)
Calculated slip = -5

Here is the summary:
Wake board configuration: 31.4 MPH at 6300 RPM
Loaded for bear, no ballast: 23 MPH at 5300 RPM
Loaded for bear, with ballast: 20 MPH at 5100 RPM

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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by Whipsyjac » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:21 am

Great info Darren,

I PM'd you since I'm close by and starting to get the itch for more power.

Willy

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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by DaveB » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:13 pm

That's the performance I was looking for but had no dealer to install a 90hp. I put on a new 50hp big foot and get 17mph on a 2 ft. chop and lot of weight.
It's alright with me and usually cruise at 7mph and get around 6-8mpg.
Dave

darrenj wrote:Sorry to revive an old thread but I thought it would be good to have my information as part of this existing thread rather than a new one.

I found a good deal on a 2012 DF90A and took the plunge. Here is a bit of info that others considering installing the same motor might find useful.
Thank you Victor and everyone else for all the info you provided in this thread. Additional thanks to Victor for responding to my questions via PM. It took all the guess work out of installing a DF90A on my 26X.

If you install the engine interface cable to get engine info on your chart plotter be sure to get one with a software version that is not 2.7. Version 2.7 has a known bug with fuel flow measurement. Full info on how to get it working can be found here: http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-elec ... ne-13.html

As mentioned in previous threads the Analogue tach is not perfect.
Our tach shows correct RPM compared to interface at idle (700 rpm). When tach shows 2000 RPM interface is 2050. When tach shows 6100 RPM interface shows 6300.

My prop is the Suzuki 14 inch blades * 13 pitch that came with the motor (had to ask for it as they would have included a prop more suited for a lighter boat by default).

My boat has bottom paint.

6 Degree transom wedges.

Just finished breaking the motor in and put in to do a long weekend trip (loaded for bear) and did a speed run to see if we were propped right.
Weight wise we had the following:
Empty ballast.
Myself (225 pounds), my wife (???), my 12 year old daughter and her friend (115 pounds each).
50 litres of gas (12 Gallons)
55 Litres of water on board in a bladder hooked up to pressurized water system.
Mast was up. 1 anchor with 20 feet of chain and 150 feet of rode.
A large cooler full of ice, water and pop. Food for the weekend. Two crab traps and all gear for them. Two fishing rods and tackle. Full kitchen (wallace stove\heater with 4 gallons of fuel, smaller gas burner, small rail mounted BBQ with 4 1 pound propane tanks, tons of cutlery, plates, bowles etc). 4 sleeping bags and pillows.
Full enclosure. Swim deck over steering linkage.
Conditions were: slight chop and slight wind on the nose.

Max speed was 23 MPH at 5300 RPM.
The kids were on the bow and we stayed dry in the cockpit, the spray was mid-ship.
I was a bit worried we were over propped.

On the return trip all the same as above but with ballast in:
Conditions were flat and no wind.
Max speed was 20.5 MPH at 5100 RPM.
I was surprised our speed was so close to unballasted. The kids were on the bow and the spray was much worse, towards the front of the boat, and spray was getting into the cockpit. Friends traveling with us took some pictures and we were definitely bow heavy with the kids up front and ballast in.

Since I was a bit worried that the boat was over propped I decided to try a speed run the next day at a local lake with the boat as light as possible (Wake board configuration).
What was on the boat:
Anchor with chain and rode, mandatory safety gear such as flares etc, 5 Gallons of fuel.
The mast was off (not just down, it was left on the lawn at home). I was the only one on board.
So it was basically stock with the mast off.
Max speed was 32 MPH at 6300 RPM. Conditions were pretty much flat with just a hint of wind. Just barely made 6300 RPM and only in one direction. The other direction was 6200 RPM at 30.5 to 31 MPH.
Best speed was with motor tilted up slightly (trim gauge showed 25%). Trimmed all the way down I lost 2 MPH. Adjusting trim did not impact boat angle much if any. Given that I am not sure the Transom wedges are needed on my boat but figured it was better to have them just in case.

Given all the above I am pretty happy with the prop and the engine is performing pretty much exactly as I had hoped. It is actually fast than I though it would be in the mast off configuration. When I plugged my numbers into the prop calculator here: http://www.mercuryracing.com/propellers ... ulator.php
I was expecting a top speed of no more than 28 MPH with the 13 pitch prop.

The Suzuki prop must actually be more than 13 pitch or have cup or other characteristics that make it faster than its calculated max because when I put my actual numbers in I have prop slip of negative 5. :)

Prop pitch = 13
Gear Ration = 2.59
Engine RPM = 6300
Actual Speed = 31.4 (I hit 32 but it was only one direction, I was able to sustain 31.4)
Calculated slip = -5

Here is the summary:
Wake board configuration: 31.4 MPH at 6300 RPM
Loaded for bear, no ballast: 23 MPH at 5300 RPM
Loaded for bear, with ballast: 20 MPH at 5100 RPM

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vkmaynard
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Re: New 2010 Suzuki DF90A + 26X = BIG Success!

Post by vkmaynard » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:47 pm

darrenj wrote:Best speed was with motor tilted up slightly (trim gauge showed 25%). Trimmed all the way down I lost 2 MPH.
Our boat behaves exactly the same.

One trick you should try is when condition get a little unstable speed your boat up. The boat will become more stable due to the hydrodynamic pressure provided by your 90.

Glad you like it 8)

Really makes the boat super fun. Ask our kids.

Victor

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