ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

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Mac26Mpaul
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by Mac26Mpaul »

THanks Pen24, I now believe this is a reasonably common failure on motors and seems pretty easy to fix. My problem (which I'm told is common for these things) is that all 4 of those bolts are seized and I just cant get em to budge. I think I'll just leave it to the experts :wink:
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aya16
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by aya16 »

The only diff. between the white and blue engines is the steering tube on the motors, (which the mac doesn't use) the white engine has a stainless tube, the blue one uses a steel tube.

The e motors sold on ebay Im sure are not cheap knock offs, but more just un branded same motors evinrude uses, the e motors are sourced from manufactures, not made in house by evinrude. My guess is the ebay sellers are just buying the motors straight from the manufacture.

I personally would make every effort to fix this myself, If the bolts are frozen then soaking them with break free and hitting them to break the corrosion bond should free them up. Still you run the chance of breaking them trying to get them out.

Did you check the fuse yet? see if you are getting power to the wires to the e motor? sometimes it is best to let the experts do the work, you break off the studs, bolts, then you have even more problems to deal with. I would soak the bolts in break free for a couple days no matter what you do. (take it to the shop, or do it yourself.)

This is one of those interesting repairs, Its also a pretty common thing, anytime we have two diff, metals and salt water interacting, we can run into problems, having stainless bolts and other type metal that's being bolted together we get a reaction, once the bolts are out and if they look tore up from galvanic reaction, the bolts should be replaced, and anti seize should be used to put them back in.

We have the same reaction on our spreaders, we have a stainless spreader holders, stainless bolts, and an aluminum spreader. If we take the spreader out you will see where the spreaders are eaten away where they slide into the spreader holders. That's why its better to replace the spreader with stainless tube.
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Crikey
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by Crikey »

The experience I've had with frozen bolts, in the past (Volkswagen days) is that a mechanic, or his helper is too pressed for time to use longer procedures on them. When something eventually snaps off they can turn to you with impunity and tell you the extra cost of drilling it out and re-tapping, is just your 'bad luck'.
Since a couple of those expensive lessons, I've never met a bolt that's defeated my more protracted efforts.
There's lots of internet reading available for learning the correct techniques, and even if you can do a successful dis-assembly yourself, beforehand, the actual repair could take a lot less time and be cheaper because of it.
I'd still buy a shop manual - regardless.
Ross.
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seahouse
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by seahouse »

Hey Paul! :D

Thanks for posting that .pdf link. Very informative and had some information I don't recall having seen before.

- Brian. :wink:
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Mac26Mpaul
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by Mac26Mpaul »

Thanks, if its going to save me an hours labour (boat labour here must be 80 bucks an hour or so I think), I reckon I just might have another go at them screws.........
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DaveB
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by DaveB »

It is common on Honda, Merc. etec and probably more.
They all have steel caseings on the cover and corrode.
On my Honda 50 I had to take the engine off the boat with a cherry picker to get access to the 4 screws mounting the trim motor, even than they used a anti release sealent on the screws and had to heat them up with a torch and used a compac hammer to get them out. I think they used a High temp. liquid to seal them.
I spent 3 hrs than got nasty and choped away the base were I could get vise grips and a propane torch on them.
I will never buy a Honda again and next motor will have easy removal of the trim motor.
Replacement was a plastic cover motor so rust doesn't happen ($125), the sides I could crush with my hand easy as the caseing was paper thin due to rust.
That caseing and all caseings should be stainless steel or high grade aluminum.
You pay 6-8 grand for a motor it should be.
Replaceing it will require the engine all the way up and fill the hydrolic fluid located at the lift bottom next to it and raise and lower it 3-4 times filling the fluid when raised all the way at top to bleed the system of air bubbles.
If motor works it could be a simple thing of bleeding the system, small air leak can over time cause air in system and that will cause noise in trim up and down. This can be corrected by above info.

Dave
Mac26Mpaul wrote:THanks Pen24, I now believe this is a reasonably common failure on motors and seems pretty easy to fix. My problem (which I'm told is common for these things) is that all 4 of those bolts are seized and I just cant get em to budge. I think I'll just leave it to the experts :wink:
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yukonbob
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by yukonbob »

Thanks, if its going to save me an hours labour (boat labour here must be 80 bucks an hour or so I think), I reckon I just might have another go at them screws.........
I only charge myself a beer and hour for labour :wink: (three hour max) After that its not worth it :D
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Mac26Mpaul
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by Mac26Mpaul »

You are nice and cheap 8)

I took some of the advice and got myself a manual yesterday. You can't beat AU$4.79 (US$5) for the full workshop manual :!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2ZIFI7BAM8
And I'v already printed a third of it out and put it in a nice binder :wink:

What I can now see is, that there is really nothing to it to replace the tilt trim motor
Its just a matter of undoing the 4 screws and unplugging the motor. Then test it with a 12v battery just to confirm that it is the motor, and then replace it. The hardest part I can see is just getting the wireing out and back into the engine casing.

So, now its just a matter of trying to get those dam screws out, no room for an impact driver. My plan is to get one of those little butane pen blowtorches to heat the screws and see how we go.

Another thing I can see, is that it looks pretty easy to do the major service on these motors. I thought it was way too techo with the computer and all, but as long as there are no problems, you dont really need touch the computer and the workshop manual gives pretty clear instructions on the service. Could also buy one of those aftermarket cables and find the software if you wanted to do print outs from the motor stats.
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seahouse
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by seahouse »

Hey Paul - :D Would I be correct in assuming that you can't access and disconnect the motor terminal to apply 12V directly to it without removing the 4 screws?
- Brian.
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Mac26Mpaul
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by Mac26Mpaul »

No, ya can get to the wirering without removing the screws, it just looks like a real pain, real tight squeese in there and cant see whats what - may be better when I take my time and have a look when its not raining :wink:
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Crikey
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by Crikey »

Hey Paul, I'll trade you my snow for your rain. :P
Have the admiral hold the umbrella, for pete's sake. :D

From looking at the pictures it seems like you might have enough room for a small impact driver - particularly if you disconnected the pin from the piston to raise the hinge bracket out of the way. It's best to use a good penetrating oil, not WD40, and to take a couple of days slightly tapping and wiggling the threads before you make any attempt to force turn them. If nothing's working, take more time. Putting torch heat there will only burn off the protective paint. I've only used heat to assist in sucking penetrant down the threads.
Ross
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seahouse
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by seahouse »

Good advice, Ross.

Just went back and looked at your photos Paul.

Another tip. Don't remove any one of the 4 screws before you have all of them broken loose. Tighten the loosened ones up again while you work on the remaining seized ones.

If you remove them one at a time it will increase the pressure on the remaining one(s) and make them harder to remove.

- Brian. :wink:
Last edited by seahouse on Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Crikey
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by Crikey »

Yup! And if you should happen to strip or break off the head of one you could Dremel off the top part (hopefully this happens only once) and pull the cover past it and off. Then the shank of the stud should be grip-able by a vise grip.
Best to go slow, and avoid this little dance. :?
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Mac26Mpaul
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Re: ETEC 50 tilt trim problems

Post by Mac26Mpaul »

Thanks guys but after this mornings effort I reckon I will leave it to the experts... :(

Admiral does not hold umbrellas, she stands behind me giving orders on how I should be doing it, which of course gets me more frustrated and rightly so considering she doesnt know the difference between the mulgrips and the adustable wrench....

There is of course no hope removing the motor screws without first removing the cylinder pin to pull the cylinder down so there is room to mess about.

To do that you need to remove the sending unit. I tried and the earthing screw is completely fused to the motor. It is of course, now broken off in there. Still, I managed to get the other screw out and pivot the sending unit down, so I could get the cotter clip out of the end of the cylinder pin. However then I realized you need a special tool (threaded rod hammer thingy) to remove the cylinder pin, which I assume you get from BRP (?)

Giving up there for the moment, I decided to have another look at the wireing, at least if I can get it disconnected, I can hook the motor up to 12 volts to make sure that is infact the problem. I found it to be impossible to get in there, and realized I'll need to remove the lower motor covers as well (pain). At about that time, the rain started again...

At this point, I decided that it may just be better to get a man to do it! Preferably one with a left and right hand (rather than two lefts) and a nice workshop full of special tools, rather than 4 dodgy screwdrivers, a pair of Mulgrips, a can of WD40, a six pack and a bag of chips......

Now if you dont mind, I'm going to take those last two items and watch the A Team rerun which will be on soon 8)
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