How do you deal with mainsheet/jibsheet tangles?

[jbousquin]

Ok, so while I love my and think Roger put an amazing amount of thought into many things, the placement of the mainsheet/traveler/jibsheet is not one of them.

Here's the deal, you're sailing close hauled, and to reduce heel, you let your traveler all the way out to leeward. Which puts your tightly trimmed mainsheet right in front of the tail of your jib sheet. You go to trim jib, but find it's easier to do so if you move the tail of the jibsheet inside the mainsheet, toward the center of the boat.

Of course, when you go to tack, said jibsheet is in the way of the traveler, which slides down on top of jibsheet, tangling it under the block for the mainsheet.

Or, you're on a broad reach, or going downwind, and you let your mainsheet out to catch air... and it places itself right in front of your jib sheet, before getting hung up on your lifelines/stanchion.

I'm thinking the wisdom of this board must have found a better way. I've been thinking of running my jib sheet back to the genoa track on the sides of the cockpit, and using the docking cleats to tie it off. With the little jib, I rarely find it necessary to use the winch, so I think I would be able to get away with managing the sheets there. Alternatively, I'm wondering if there are track-mounted winches that can be placed on that track.

I've also thought of running the jibsheet through the eyes on the stanchion directly on each side of the mast, (usually used to attach the mini-side-stays when raising the mast using the mast-raising system), then taking the track block that's usually on top of the cabin back to the genoa track, and then using the docking cleat to tie off.

I would love to hear other thoughts/suggestions/experiences that others have had trying to keep the jibsheets and mainsheet out of each others way.

Thanks, Joe

[FinallySailing]

Try this :

[Russ]

I've never given this as much thought as you. I think the traveler is a big improvement over the previous single attachment on the pedestal.

I recently ran my sheets back to the cockpit rails using these. It might work for what you are describing.

[mastreb]

Ditto RussMT's solution. I use those for the genny in all but the heaviest wind, when I fail back to the winches. But the track-mounted cam-cleats are a big improvement over dealing with winches 90% of the time.

The issue I haven't figured out is this--What's an easy way to switch from going outside the stays when I'm fully out at 150 vs. furling in to 80 or 90 where I'd want the jib sheets inside the stays? So far I'm clambering around on deck to move sheets around when I furl, or just forgoing decent headsail handling and keeping the sheets outside the stays.

[Highlander]

You need the jib sheet tracks if u want to be able to trim ur jib "power up- power down without it you will loose the ablity to trim ur jib right , if u have a furler u need to be able to move the jib sheets forward when reducing sail area just my two cents worth

J

[vizwhiz]

The issue I haven't figured out is this--What's an easy way to switch from going outside the stays when I'm fully out at 150 vs. furling in to 80 or 90 where I'd want the jib sheets inside the stays? So far I'm clambering around on deck to move sheets around when I furl, or just forgoing decent headsail handling and keeping the sheets outside the stays.

if u have a furler u need to be able to move the jib sheets forward when reducing sail area just my two cents worth

On my boat, I only have two sets of fairleads on each side, no track...one fairlead is near the winch and out by the edge for sheets outside the shrouds on full genny, the other fairlead is further forward and a little inside for sheets inside the shrouds on reduced headsail. Because of just what you were talking about mastreb, I was thinking about reducing sheet diameters and putting two sets on, just leaving them inside/outside the shrouds, and only tightening the one (of the four) I needed tight at the moment. That way, I wouldn't have to climb up on deck when reducing headsail in order to re-route my sheets inside the shrouds.
(Okay, I didn't really consider that very hard, but I did think about doing that.)

[jbousquin]

Thanks guys. Russ, I just ordered the track-mounted cam cleats from Garhauer. For the benefit of anyone else thinking of doing the same, I found it here: http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=37

The part is E-Z Glide Adjustable Genoa Car System SJ-1, and previous posts have mentioned it as well.

So, Russ, when you run the sheets for the jib to these cleats, do you go inside, outside, or between the shroud wires? I was experimenting with the jib unfurled at the dock, and it almost seemed like going between the upper and lower shroud wires was the cleanest angle.

Also, when using these cleats for the jib, do you still run the sheets through the track-mounted blocks on the cabin top, or do you move those blocks back to the genoa track in the cockpit? I'm referring to when the jib is fully unfurled.

Cheers, Joe

[mastreb]

I was thinking about reducing sheet diameters and putting two sets on, just leaving them inside/outside the shrouds, and only tightening the one (of the four) I needed tight at the moment. That way, I wouldn't have to climb up on deck when reducing headsail in order to re-route my sheets inside the shrouds.
(Okay, I didn't really consider that very hard, but I did think about doing that.)

That's the same solution I'd come up with as well--just running a second sheet through the clew of the genny and running it to the cabin-top tracks. But that's a lot of extra sheets laying around getting caught on shrouds all the time, and I'd have to remember to loose the redundant set for every tack. I guess it won't cost anything to try it.

[Russ]

So, Russ, when you run the sheets for the jib to these cleats, do you go inside, outside, or between the shroud wires? I was experimenting with the jib unfurled at the dock, and it almost seemed like going between the upper and lower shroud wires was the cleanest angle.

Also, when using these cleats for the jib, do you still run the sheets through the track-mounted blocks on the cabin top, or do you move those blocks back to the genoa track in the cockpit? I'm referring to when the jib is fully unfurled.

Cheers, Joe

To be honest Joe, I moved them back to the cockpit rails because I installed a new genny and the sheets must route on the outside of the shrouds with that sail.
That's the part I bought last week and they shipped them very fast. Experiment and see how to run the sheets. For the jib, you will probably need the block on the deck.


--Russ

[jbousquin]

Hi again everyone,

Used the Garhauer track mounted cam cleats this weekend on the cockpit tracks, and what a difference they make!

Not only do they keep the jib sheet free and clear of the mainsheet, I found that when the wind picked up, I could still put a couple of wraps around the cabin-top winches, and then route the end of the sheet back to cams on the sides of the cockpit. That helped me be able to pull on the jib with the help of the winch, and then clamp them down from the helm. (Also made me wonder why Roger put those winches on top of the cabin in the first place, and not back on the cockpit combing....

This cams are a really nice solution, I feel, and nowhere near as expensive as a) relocating traveler or b) buying new winches to put further back in the cockpit.

It makes me wonder: Has anyone removed their cabin-top winches and mounted them further aft on the cockpit combing?

Cheers, Joe

[robbarnes1965]

I have the cam cleats too which are great when I'm alone but sailing with the admiral or other crew it's good to have space to work so I keep the sheets on the winched then. That said, I have been wondering lately about a way to rig the sheets to the OPPOSITE side. Particularly when racing in a strong wind, adjusting the sheets on the side with the rail in the water is no fun. Would be so much more efficient for balance and adjustment to have the working sheet to windward. Has anyone ever tried to deal with that?

[Russ]

Has anyone removed their cabin-top winches and mounted them further aft on the cockpit combing?

Cheers, Joe

Highlander has done it. I guess the access port he installed allows through bolting.

[jbousquin]

I was thinking about reducing sheet diameters and putting two sets on, just leaving them inside/outside the shrouds, and only tightening the one (of the four) I needed tight at the moment. That way, I wouldn't have to climb up on deck when reducing headsail in order to re-route my sheets inside the shrouds.
(Okay, I didn't really consider that very hard, but I did think about doing that.)

That's the same solution I'd come up with as well--just running a second sheet through the clew of the genny and running it to the cabin-top tracks. But that's a lot of extra sheets laying around getting caught on shrouds all the time, and I'd have to remember to loose the redundant set for every tack. I guess it won't cost anything to try it.

Just one more thought on the track-mounted cam cleats and two sets of sheets. Going back to my marina on the Delta, there is a very distinct turn in the channel where you usually need to go from a beam reach to a dead down-wind run. It occured to me yesterday to re-rig the windward sheet (i.e., the one not being used on the current tack) outside the shrouds before going dead downwind, and then running it back to the cam cleats. I also did not run the sheet through the block on the cabin top.

When I turned, I then just pulled the stalling jib over to the other side outside the shrouds. Not only did it have a much better shape than when run through the cabin-top blocks, I was able to keep it inflated a lot more easily going downwind without a whisker pole, which I do not happen to have due to a shortage of boat bucks... If I had wanted to, I could have then just re-rigged the other side of the sheet outside of the shrouds and bypassing the cabin-top block quickly, but as this was my last tack before going back to the dock, I didn't. I know it's extra work, but to me, it seems better than having an extra set of sheets to get tangled up in.

[robbarnes1965]

.[/quote]

I was able to keep it inflated a lot more easily going downwind without a whisker pole, which I do not happen to have due to a shortage of boat bucks... If I had wanted to, I could have then just re-rigged the other side of the sheet outside of the shrouds and bypassing the cabin-top block quickly, but as this was my last tack before going back to the dock, I didn't. I know it's extra work, but to me, it seems better than having an extra set of sheets to get tangled up in.[/quote]

I finally decided to experiment with a jury-rigged whisker pole (one fiberglass/aluminum pole, 2 carabiners). It's a bit ghetto but it worked in my race last night. I hook one end to the working sheet and the other is left hooked on the mast attachment for the mast raising kit. I use the spare jib halyard to raise the pole as well as to store the pole when not in use.







Rob

[robbarnes1965]

Post-race mod: