fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

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DaveC426913
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fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by DaveC426913 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:46 am

Never winterized my boat before. Last year, the first year I owned it, I had it done at a Marina. But I think I'd better learn how.

If I understand correctly, it's really just a matter of pulling out the spark plugs, shooting some fogger into the cylinders, and then futilely hand-cranking the engine (it's on the hard).

I'm going down to see her tomorrow; I'll have to make sure I have the right tools. Anyone know what kind of socket to use? Today I'm off to West Marine to buy some fogger. Is there a particular kind I should get?

If anyone has a link to a good step-by-step, it would be appreciated.

Also, my PO had a water bladder installed to run the head and the sink. I had that winterized last year as well. Have not used it this year. Can it still be considered winterized?

And finally, any other winterizing to do on a Mac? A few drops of bleach in the water ballast? Power wash the hull?

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Tomfoolery
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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by Tomfoolery » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:15 am

I don't fog mine. I just change the oil and filter, and the gear oil.

Definitely change the gear lube, as you don't know how much, if any, water is in there, and freezing water that's separated out of the gear lube can destroy your lower unit ($$$$). It's also an important means of monitoring the seals - you'd never know if they're letting water in if you don't drop the oil every so often. It's certainly easy enough to do, and gear lube is cheap (~1 pint per change).

If you were going to fog the cylinders, I'd crank it with the battery and spray it into the carbs.

Oh, speaking of carbs, run the engine out of gas using a hose and ear muffs (rectangular better than round, and don't forget to tape over the third intake), then drain the float bowls. There's even a hose in there for that purpose. Drain them into a cup or something so you don't destroy your driveway.

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Sea Wind
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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by Sea Wind » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:24 am

empty fresh water and pottie tanks, and look for those rogue full cans and bottles in the bilge.

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taime1
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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by taime1 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:32 pm

I'm new to the forum and new to sailing alltogther. Bought a 1990 26s last year and sold it this year to get a 2000 :macx:. Love it, can't get enough of it, can't stop thinking about next season (another 179 days before the marina opens again :cry: ).

Anyway, I'm usually shy about posting because I know so very little, but I had to go to 2 different places before I could get my winterizing done. The local Honda Powerhouse wouldn't take it because of the size of the boat, so I went to a local marine shop and they charged $170 for that service. Honda wanted $280 for their annual service. I also had them clean and re-synch the carbs and that set me back another $400 to correct a roughlow-idle. I've since ordered the service manual on CD from Ebay ($15) and hope to avoid these costs in the future.

If you don't already have one, you can also download an owner's manual here which gives some detail as to how to winterize.

http://marine.honda.com/Owners/Manuals/models/BF50

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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by Seapup » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:47 pm

Oh, speaking of carbs, run the engine out of gas using a hose and ear muffs (rectangular better than round, and don't forget to tape over the third intake), then drain the float bowls. There's even a hose in there for that purpose. Drain them into a cup or something so you don't destroy your driveway.
100% - Take care of the carbs. I like draining, some use stabil.

When researching the motor I read the design trapped water in the bottom end if its left tilted up, not sure if its true. Some reccommend to flush it with antifreeze.

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taime1
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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by taime1 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:37 pm

For boat winterizing, there may be a sort of check list in the previous forums. I emptied everything from the boat, including the cushions (as per Admiral's wishes). We store the cushions in the basement with dryer sheets tucked inside to keep them fresh. I also tossed a bunch of sheets in the boat to keep rodents out and put in a tub of moisture eating powder (not sure if that works). Washed the hull with Captain Phab hull wash which worked very well but will wait until spring to wax - it'll need another wash by then anyway.

This probably wasn't necessary, but I removed the roller furling unit and hung it up from the rafters in the basement using 1.5 inch sections of 3inch PVC piping screwed into the floor joists.

I also took some weight off the axle by using car jacks under the back end of the trailer and some lumber under the cross bar at the tongue end. Of course, built the tarp shelter with PVC piping. Wrapped up the motor with an old 4-wheeler cover and put it in the down position.

I've been miserable ever since.

I'm not sure what to do with the fuel tanks - should I store them full (with stabilizer) and use that gas in another motor in the spring, and put in fresh fuel at that time, or shoul I dump the fuel and leave the tanks empty?

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seahouse
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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by seahouse » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:21 am

Tkanzler -Good advice so you can be confident that your lower unit seals and therefore bearings are in good shape.

It’s easy to check for water intrusion without changing the oil by removing just the lowest screw on the gearcase. If the few drips that come out first are clean oil and not water, then you’re good to go. (Water will migrate to the bottom of the gearcase).

If you run the engine until it stops from lack of fuel (after disconnecting the fuel hose) – have you found that you still need to drain the carb bowls? At least one of them should be empty, and the remaining ones nearly so, and if you’ve added a Sta-bil type product ahead of time, you should be good also.

I would guess draining them and not running them dry has the advantage of removing any sediment that has accumulated in the bowls, though, plus you can visually inspect the fuel that comes out for that.

Yeah – fogging through the carbs does a better job than pouring oil through the spark plug holes. It treats and coats everything upstream, as well as downstream, of the cylinders, and not just the rings and cylinder walls. Although doing it through the spark plug holes alone is definitely better than doing nothing.

For fogging, I used to use a dedicated pump-type oil can that had 2-stroke oil in it, and pump that vigourously, which you can use too, but any name-brand fogging oil in a spray can will do the job (Canadian Tire has lots :wink: ).

But with the E-tec, all those are things of the past, as the E-tec self-fogs on command, and the first recommended gearcase oil change is after 3 years.

- B. :wink:

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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by Catigale » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:27 am

I've fogged my mercury 50 BF in upstate NY once in 10 seasons. Never done it since. I have spun it over once a month some seasons but not all. For carb engines, you do want the fuel out of the bowl for winter to prevent problems, use Stabil in the tank at all times if you usage is low, so you don't get caught in winter

I take the tanks off the boat and use the gas in cars and lawnmowers.

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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by Tomfoolery » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:00 am

seahouse wrote:If you run the engine until it stops from lack of fuel (after disconnecting the fuel hose) – have you found that you still need to drain the carb bowls? At least one of them should be empty, and the remaining ones nearly so, and if you’ve added a Sta-bil type product ahead of time, you should be good also.
Yes, I get some gas out of all three of them. A little out of the bottom, and more from the other two, and not just a few drops, either. So I treat the 6 gallon gas can with Stabil, shake it up, run the engine to warm it up (garden hose for cooling water), disconnect the fuel line, run it out of gas, then (after changing the oil and filter) drain the float bowls.

The Honda BF50 has an extra couple of hoses in there, one attached to the lower carb, the other dead-ended on a storage pin lower and forward of the bottom carb, that I use for draining the gas into a cup.

Then I do as Catigale does in using the gas in the snowthrower and the lawn tractor, and if I think it's going to sit too long (from having too much stored gas), in the cars. Marine tanks I leave dry for the winter, and refill in the spring.

Oh, and I use a fuel hose to siphon the gas out of the 6 gallon tanks. It's the one that came with the boat, and I had cut the engine end off. I bought a new one 'cause the old one was 12 years old. Since the squeeze bulb still works, it's easy to get the siphon action going. It's slow, but I just let it go into my 5 gallon metal safety cans while I'm doing something else and just keep an eye on it so it doesn't overfill.

I changed the gear lube three times this summer. At the first change, I found a lot of water in it (I didn't change it when I winterized the first time). I changed it again a month later, and found only a small trace of water. The third time, when winterizing last month, I found no water, and in fact, have the drain oil sitting in my shop in a bottle, just to give it time to settle out. Still no signs of water or dirt. I suspect the water got in when the Honda marine shop changed the impeller for me after doing the engine survey. They didn't change the lube, and didn't ask me if they should (I would have said yes, but hadn't thought of it). I'm not seeing any signs of water now, but it's something I'll monitor very closely.

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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by seahouse » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:05 pm

Interesting. That would lead me to believe that the fuel pickup tube in the float bowl does not go all the way to the bottom, and therefore would not pick up and draw any sediment into the jets… a good thing! Older outboards that I’ve had in the past (maybe because of larger diameter jets?) didn’t have such protection.

:idea: Another benefit of doing your own winterizing… you will be able to immediately recognize the signs and symptoms of fuel starvation (having experienced them at the end of every season) if it ever happens unexpectedly.

Past (smaller) boats that I kept in the garage were an emergency supply of fuel in the winter for a generator in case of power outage. Since the (bigger boat) Mac is stored elsewhere, this year I took the full (emptied the other one into it) gas tank from the Mac and kept it at home in the garage for that purpose.

- B. :wink:

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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by seahouse » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:18 pm

Dave – the water bladder itself won’t be harmed by freezing if there is a little water in it. The fittings, valves, pump and connections can be another story, though. If you are certain that no water got into the system over the summer, then you should be good for another year. Can you tell if it was winterized by just draining all the water from it, or was anti-freeze (a coloured, maybe pink, liquid that still might have an “alcoholy” smell to it) added as well?

- Brian. :wink:

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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by Highlander » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:11 pm

Phone rings !, skipper picks it up to hear a mans voice say "Is the coast clear " Admiral replies can't tell for the fog ?? man hangs up !!
Skipper completely foggergasped say's i'll never foggether again !! :o :?

J :D :D :D :D :P
PS Do not fogg the air intake on a fuel injected eng . just the cylinders

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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by Bilgemaster » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:30 am

Highlander wrote:Phone rings !, skipper picks it up to hear a mans voice say "Is the coast clear " Admiral replies can't tell for the fog ?? man hangs up !!
Skipper completely foggergasped say's i'll never foggether again !! :o :?
Ummm...Huh? Do those of us "south of the border" need to use Canadian Google to understand this possible parable of presumed cuckoldry? Or maybe that maple syrup has just fermented again? Hard to say...

Image

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Phil M
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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by Phil M » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:19 am

The Honda 50 is more prone to having the carburetor Jets clogging up than other engines and therefore winterizing is more important on a Honda 50. :(

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Re: fogging Honda 50 and winterizing Mac X

Post by paul I » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:27 pm

seahouse wrote:If you run the engine until it stops from lack of fuel (after disconnecting the fuel hose) – have you found that you still need to drain the carb bowls? At least one of them should be empty, and the remaining ones nearly so, and if you’ve added a Sta-bil type product ahead of time, you should be good also.
Tomfoolery wrote:Yes, I get some gas out of all three of them. A little out of the bottom, and more from the other two, and not just a few drops, either. So I treat the 6 gallon gas can with Stabil, shake it up, run the engine to warm it up (garden hose for cooling water), disconnect the fuel line, run it out of gas, then (after changing the oil and filter) drain the float bowls. .
I've never drained the bowls of my :macx: . So after reading this thread, and having to change the fuel filter anyway, I decided to have a look at it.

Some background. What I typically do, and already completed a couple of weeks ago, is: run the engine with water hose attached (all water intakes taped). I empty the gas tanks leaving only a few quarts of gas in one of the tanks. I tip the tank upright until the motor runs out of gas. By tipping the tank upright the motor uses all the old fuel in the primary line and can only suck air into the system. I then treat the remaining gas with a cleaner/stabilizer (this year I used Seafoam). Pump the bulb and restart the engine, this time using the treated gas. Once it has a steady idle again, I shut the motor down and go change the oil. This allows the cleaner to marinate in the carbs for a while. When I'm ready I restart the motor and let everything stabilize again. Then I again tip up the tank to empty the primary fuel line of treated fuel until the motor shuts down.

So today I located the carb drain lines. Two of the three had worked loose and were just entwined in the other stuff. The topmost one was still attached. I plugged them all back in and one by one, opened the drain screws. I got nothing out of any of them. Not a drop. I backed out the drain screws half way at least.

I did get a major surprise when I got to the fuel filter though. I think its spent 3 seasons in there now, and there were chunks of what seem like crystalized brown rocks in it. Some of the were dime sized. Apparently the fuel filter never completely drains.

Tomfoolery wrote:I changed the gear lube three times this summer. At the first change, I found a lot of water in it (I didn't change it when I winterized the first time). I changed it again a month later, and found only a small trace of water. The third time, when winterizing last month, I found no water, and in fact, have the drain oil sitting in my shop in a bottle, just to give it time to settle out. Still no signs of water or dirt. I suspect the water got in when the Honda marine shop changed the impeller for me after doing the engine survey. They didn't change the lube, and didn't ask me if they should (I would have said yes, but hadn't thought of it). I'm not seeing any signs of water now, but it's something I'll monitor very closely.
I had the seals replaced three seasons back. I experienced the same thing the first two years after that. It looked like a milkyness to the oil, certainly not what the oil looked like when new, but no where near as bad as it was prior to the seal replacement. At the start of this last season I needed to replace the impeller. I noticed the impeller housing has a fitting in the bottom of it. This fitting press fits with an O-ring into a socket on the lower unit. When I removed the impeller housing I realized this was another place water could seep into the lower unit oil. I replaced the O-ring when I replaced the impeller. I also replaced the gear lube. When I replaced the gear lube again at the end of the season, there was no milky oil to be found at all.

I also left the water contaminated oil to sit. After many weeks, it never separated.

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