Forestay failure

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Tempus
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Re: Forestay failure

Post by Tempus » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:11 am

G'day Dimitri.

Fair point, but in this particular circumstance something had to fail and in my case it was the forestay. The stay broke/failed = failure. At no stage did I intend to suggest that it necessarily shouldn't have. I did comment on my surprise as to the considered small load (very slow, but I accept I had the momentum of the boat/trailer and Nissan Patrol forcing the mast against a branch approx 2-3" in dia) that resulted in the break (fail), as well as how it failed right at the swage. As someone has pointed out earlier in the thread, a swage actually introduces a weakness in the wire rope, so I now concede it was a logical break point.

One of my concerns out of this was how the forestay (a single point of failure for the mast staying up!) would withstand normal sailing forces with only the mailsail up.

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Re: Forestay failure

Post by Catigale » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:58 am

Impact with stuff isn't "fair use".

Pretty much any mast will snap if it feels shock load...except for a Nonesuch maybe

I'm amazed you got away with only stay failure.....

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Dimitri-2000X-Tampa
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Re: Forestay failure

Post by Dimitri-2000X-Tampa » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:54 am

I'm with Catigale, really surprised nothing else broke and that includes the mast both from initial impact and then again from falling down. Are you sure you don't have any new bends in the mast or that the shroud attachment bolt didn't elongate the holes that it is drilled through? And what about the mast base, still straight as an arrow or perhaps it got bent? My point being that something had to resist that forestay hard enough for it to break, and that would probably have been either the shrouds or the mast step or both.

I also think you are lucky because most encounters with trees end up with more damage and if you had a stronger forestay or two of them, then something else would have broke somewhere.

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BOAT
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Re: Forestay failure

Post by BOAT » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:35 am

That’s a great idea! But I don't have a spinnaker halyard, (I don't even have a spinnaker!).

I guess I could put in a spinnaker halyard.

Tempus
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Re: Forestay failure

Post by Tempus » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:28 pm

Dimitri/Catigale,

I agree....I was expecting far more catastrophic damage as well, but none found. Shrouds and bolt holes look fine, as does the mast mount. Mast is as straight as I can tell with the Mk1 eye-ball. There is a slight ding where the trailing edge of the mast impacted the roller/solar panel. I can only conclude that, as you both have assessed, I have got away with this extremely lightly. I think the solar panel structure 'gave' a bit on impact and sort of cushioned the blow (while bending the panel frame and shattering the panel glass).

Without a doubt, a lesson learned...dammit. :x

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Matt19020
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Re: Forestay failure

Post by Matt19020 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:40 pm

Tempus wrote: Without a doubt, a lesson learned...dammit. :x
Learned many lessons here!

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Re: Forestay failure

Post by Boblee » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:44 am

If you have a furler for your jib you should have a spare halyard for your spinaker or in this case a back up for your foreplay er stay.

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Re: Forestay failure

Post by BOAT » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:08 am

Boblee wrote:If you have a furler for your jib you should have a spare halyard for your spinaker or in this case a back up for your foreplay er stay.

? So, does that mean it's farther to New York than it is by plane? ? ?

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Re: Forestay failure

Post by Boblee » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:02 pm

? So, does that mean it's farther to New York than it is by plane? ? ?
:D Not sure what you meant by your reply but it did remind me of this video I thought I would share, talk about foreplay with this sheila.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-BldI0h ... r_embedded

As to the halyard did you buy your boat new? if it had a furler fitted it should have a block on the hound for the jib furler (not used for jib now), which I moved to a second hound further up the mast for the spinnaker but even if left in it's original position could be used as a standby forestay, if the halyard is not there not hard to put it back and prefferably routed to the cockpit for future use as a spinnaker halyard.
Last edited by Boblee on Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BOAT
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Re: Forestay failure

Post by BOAT » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:08 pm

My boat is new and it came with a furling genoa. I do not see any hardware for a working jib on the mast, (unless there is a block on the same hound the genoa is on?) I may have missed that - I'll go take a look.

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Dimitri-2000X-Tampa
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Re: Forestay failure

Post by Dimitri-2000X-Tampa » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:53 pm

Funny video Boblee, not a conversation for a first date for sure. :D Or maybe he should have had that conversation before he married her.

But have to differ with you regarding the jib block. You can't use that as a backup forestay (btdt) unless you never plan to use your furler. Reason being is that it is too close and will wind up with the furler, fouling it. And that can be really inconvenient if you are in an increasing wind and you can't wind that baby up. Even with the spinnaker block about 8 inches above the forestay, I need to make sure it is tight (no slack) or it can still interfere. But when it is pulled tight, it will not interfere. The jib block is too close and will interfere even when pulled tight.

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Re: Forestay failure

Post by BOAT » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:30 pm

Also, I would like to ask you guys if you trailer a lot? As I roll the mast I am getting the spreaders above the saftey lines so I need to move the mast to the left and then the right to get the spreaders under the saftey lines, but that whole furing genoa rig is also on my shoulder so it travels with the mast. Do you guys remove the entire genoa and furler off the mast or do you trailer with the genoa attached?

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Re: Forestay failure

Post by Dimitri-2000X-Tampa » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:01 pm

I do tend to trailer quite a bit and always travel with the Genny on the furler, wrapped up and tied to the mast. This is how I move it around too, to keep the furler under control when moving it from trailer position to stepped. I loosen the lifelines and the spreaders go above the lifelines. A slight wiggle still required to clear the stanchions but then the spreaders ride free after that.

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BOAT
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Re: Forestay failure

Post by BOAT » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:43 am

What do you wrap the genoa with? (All I know are sail bags - man am I out of date).

Also, with the genoa attached it seems to me that you need to bend the furled genoa into an "S" shape to tie it to the mast? I was concerned that would put a lot of bend in the stay where it's swedged. Back in my day we were told to never bend a stay at the swedge. I guess it's okay? (I'm really tempted to unhook the genoa from the mast)

Is that how most people do it? They just leave the genoa connected to the mast?

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Re: Forestay failure

Post by Tomfoolery » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:56 am

The forestay is attached at the hound with a thimble and bolt, and will therefore simply rotate as you bring the sail and foil to the mast. The bolted connection at the hound should be loose enough to allow rotation without resistance, though the hound itself will sit proud of the mast.

And yes, never flex wire rope at a fitting if at all avoidable. That's what sheaves and fairleads are for. Wire rope strands slide over each other as the rope is flexed (that's what makes it different from solid rod), but they can't slide at the fitting, so the tensile load will be higher in some strands than in others. They will also bend at a sharper angle, potentially putting a permanent set in some strands.

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