Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

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Chinook
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Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by Chinook » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:31 pm

While in the Ft. Myers area we recently experienced engine troubles. While approaching the Sanibel Bridge I inadvertently ran out of gas in the port side tank. I don't like doing that, but with all the short runs we've been making lately, I failed to switch tanks in time. It's happened before and, like usual, I disconnected from the empty tank, hooked the hose up to my full tank, squeezed the bulb several times, and restarted the engine. All is good again. Except that about 5 minutes later the engine again died. I checked the fuel line connection, made sure there were no kinks in it, confirmed that the air valve on the tank cap was open, squeezed the bulb and tried to restart. The engine would fire and then die. I realize that, in the short term at least, I was without main engine power. I lowered the 2.5 hp Suzuki kicker, which is mounted on a stern retractable bracket, started it up, locked it in place and got underway again, steering with the rudders. We went another 4 miles, at a half throttle speed of 2.5 mph, and we reached a safe anchorage an hour after dark. Next morning we changed locations to a spot above the bridge, again under kicker power, and reanchored. I couldn't come up the solution to my problem on my own, and based on the trouble coinciding with the switch over in tanks, assumed I'd gotten bad gas along the way and had water in the fuel system. I located a nearby boat yard which is also a Suzuki dealership, with certified Suzuki mechanics and haul out capabilities. They were able to schedule us for the next day, which is amazing in itself. We ran under kicker power out to a small island anchorage close to the boat yard in the late afternoon, again anchored using the kicker, and then motored with the kicker in to the boat yard this morning. It's a bit tricky maneuvering in to a dock in tight quarters with just a kicker (think no reverse, limited response steering, and throttle change/shifting into neutral only by hanging over the transom and reaching down to the kicker controls. I pulled it off without incident. The little 2.5, aided by sails when wind allowed, really gave us options in moving around while the big engine was down. In heavy seas, strong winds and/or currents it could quickly get overpowered, but in the protected waters we were in, it served ably. Oh and the engine trouble, turned out to be nothing more than a faulty squeeze bulb. The little internal check valve got stuck and wouldn't let fuel pass. The boat yard mechanic quickly found the problem and installed a new bulb. All's well that ends well, and thank you kicker, for helping us avoid needing a tow.

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yukonbob
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by yukonbob » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:27 pm

I took our 2.5 river hunting lasts year. Using it at idle for steering down river worked great. I had planned on firing up the big OB for any ferrying or up river travel. Turned out that little OB ferried across river no problem (4mph current)and could even go up river (allbeit slowly) pushing a 16ft aluminum two adults and gear for a week. Pretty sure we only burned 4litres of gas over 250km (1gal over 150miles) running 3/8 throttle.

Good to hear it'll push the Mac around. That's my back up plan but have not implemented it yet.

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NiceAft
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by NiceAft » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:48 am

Yukonbob said: “Good to hear it'll push the Mac around. That's my back up plan but have not implemented it yet.”

When you do, start a new post with description and instructions on what you did. I have been looking at this for years, and have not yet seen a solution for the :macm: that I have felt comfortable with for my 6HP Mercury.

Ray

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Obelix
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by Obelix » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:37 am

I'm glad you didn't have a more serious problem with your engine. :)
Your experience gives me more thought on mounting my 2.5hp kicker so it can be used on the :macm: , rather than just hanging on the rail. :?

Best of luck for your further travels.

Obelix

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yukonbob
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by yukonbob » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:26 am

My plan was to (in an emergency) hang it off the transom next to the suz and use the rudders to steer. If that doesn't work hop in the dinghy and tow. I would like the setup that Chinook has with the retractable bracket but not sure if I want to add more stuff off the back

C Buchs
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by C Buchs » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:49 am

My boat came with a retractable kicker mount on the back, but I'm not sure what size kicker it can handle. The previous owners (there were at least two) kept a file with most of the manuals. I didn't find one for the mount, but I have one for a 4-1/2 hp Yamaha kicker. I didn't get the kicker. I'm sailing The Columbia River and always have current to fight. I think I need a larger kicker (maybe a 9.9hp), but I don't know how large. I also don't know what my mount is rated for or how well it was mounted on the inside of the boat. I'm thinking of borrowing a 9.9 from my father-in-law and just trying it. I can keep an eye on everything and see if it looks solid. Sound like a good plan?

Jeff

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yukonbob
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by yukonbob » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:10 pm

If it’s made of welded steel or aluminum and really solid, you can bet it’s rated at least up to 15hp (the bracket not the install) if its steel tubing and screwed together probably designed for electric trolling motors. If this is your main OB (as it kind of sounds like it is) why not just hang it off the transom well?

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Gazmn
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by Gazmn » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:23 pm

Hey Jeff it sounds like your PO's were responsible Capts, keeping the manuals on file & how your :macx: is rigged. I'd look for an access panel on the back that corresponds to your mounts location or crawl inside the pizza berth & look for same. Just to verify they backed up bolts with large wide washers as minimum.

A 9.9 weighs just under 90 lbs :|
That's a lot of weight to give a levering arm on our light fiberglass walls.

Hopefully, your backup mount is located opposite side of your radar, to counter each other. That's what I ended up doing. Personally, I'd look for the largest HP below that chasis & under 50lbs for easier transfer from dink to transom for when you reach that evolution. Someone's always got something on Ebay or Craigslist they're looking to get rid of.

Next issue is long or short shaft. Hopefully you have the 14" throw & can use a short for dual use with dink :wink:

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Sumner
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by Sumner » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:49 pm

Gazmn wrote:Hey Jeff it sounds like your PO's were responsible Capts, keeping the manuals on file & how your :macx: is rigged. I'd look for an access panel on the back that corresponds to your mounts location or crawl inside the pizza berth & look for same. Just to verify they backed up bolts with large wide washers as minimum.

A 9.9 weighs just under 90 lbs :|
That's a lot of weight to give a levering arm on our light fiberglass walls.

Hopefully, your backup mount is located opposite side of your radar, to counter each other. That's what I ended up doing. Personally, I'd look for the largest HP below that chasis & under 50lbs for easier transfer from dink to transom for when you reach that evolution. Someone's always got something on Ebay or Craigslist they're looking to get rid of.

Next issue is long or short shaft. Hopefully you have the 14" throw & can use a short for dual use with dink :wink:
Good info :) .

I wanted to be able to use the dinghy outboard as a backup so got a Tohatsu 3 1/2 HP 4 stroke ( 40 lbs.) as it is the lightest one I could find in a long shaft and there are high thrust props available. The long shaft did present a problem with the inflatable. It would work but run aground sooner in shallow water.

Image

The solution, and it wasn't that hard to do, was to raise the transom. I talked to Zodiac about it and they didn't see a problem with using a 6 HP or less outboard (it is rated up to an 8 HP) on a raised transom. We originally used a 5 HP Nissan (picture above) but it was just too heavy for me to move from the mount on the Mac to the inflatable on the water easily. I don't tow the inflatable with the outboard on unless it is for a short distance in calm water.

A couple more pictures...

Image

Image

... and more info here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... iac-3.html

Another solution is to not put the kicker outboard on the Mac but lash the dinghy to the Mac and keep the outboard on the dinghy with a second person in the dinghy to control speed and forward and reverse and steering to some degree. I did this once to untwist the anchor rodes after sitting on anchor a couple days on a Bahamian moor. I ran the dinghy/Mac in a tight circle and got the lines untwisted quickly.

Also a couple at the boat yard without a lot of money and a dead diesel in their 37 foot 20,000 lb. sailboat took it out of the yard, through 8 miles of canals and a lock to get to Charlotte Harbor and then sailed the west coast of Florida using the dinghy lashed to the boat for propulsion when needed. I would of never done it but they did it twice with a boat many times the size of our Mac's,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

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yukonbob
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by yukonbob » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:15 pm

I also bring the 2.5 in the jet boat as well. If needed I plan to lash it to the OB jet leg so I can still tilt and steer from the console. I think a couple ratchet straps and a good tether (just in case) would do the job. It would be slow but beats paddling. Dingies, tow ropes and rowing used to be the norm back in the day. They might have been onto something :P

C Buchs
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by C Buchs » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:20 pm

Gazmn wrote:Hey Jeff it sounds like your PO's were responsible Capts, keeping the manuals on file & how your :macx: is rigged. I'd look for an access panel on the back that corresponds to your mounts location or crawl inside the pizza berth & look for same. Just to verify they backed up bolts with large wide washers as minimum.

A 9.9 weighs just under 90 lbs :|
That's a lot of weight to give a levering arm on our light fiberglass walls.

Hopefully, your backup mount is located opposite side of your radar, to counter each other. That's what I ended up doing. Personally, I'd look for the largest HP below that chasis & under 50lbs for easier transfer from dink to transom for when you reach that evolution. Someone's always got something on Ebay or Craigslist they're looking to get rid of.

Next issue is long or short shaft. Hopefully you have the 14" throw & can use a short for dual use with dink :wink:
I've got the access panel off in the back now. I'm trying to find out where water is coming in. I don't have a lot, but I want to fix it. I think it's around the pedestal. I should be able to get my head up in there to look at the mounting. I try to snap a picture.

It is on the same side as the Radar. I haven't thought about how much it weighs. Do you have a guess?

I'm not sure of the throw. It is a cast aluminum model. I think I saw a tag on it when I was swimming and grabbed onto it. I’ll snap a picture of it also.

I guess the best plan is to crawl back and double check the inside. I'll also see if I can get the model number off the mount to see what it's rated for. Lastly I should measure it's height in the up and down positions. What should my measuring points be? I assume top of bracket. Should I be looking at the water line or the bottom of the boat or both?

Jeff

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Gazmn
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by Gazmn » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:21 am

Should I be looking at the water line or the bottom of the boat or both?
Good question... Judges???

If you put the mount to where it's parallel to the ground or water, I think you could determine the length of the drop; eg: 11" vs 14".

P.S. what leak :?

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Tomfoolery
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by Tomfoolery » Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:34 am

I'm even sure what the question is at this point. :D But here's a graphic that illustrates outboard shaft length - the bearing surface of the mount, where it sits on the transom, to the anti-ventilation plate. The range of motion of the kicker mount is easy enough to measure - just use any reference surface, like the water, or the rail (coaming) of the boat itself (use a level to extend that plane out over the kicker mount), and just take the difference between the highest and lowest settings.

As to hanging a 9.9 off that transom, I agree that the hull is pretty thin back there, away from the main OB mount location. My Aquarius was built like a tank, and I wouldn't trailer it with the 9.9 2-stroke on the mount. I'd take it off and put it in the tow vehicle. But that load on the relatively small bolt pattern can be reduced by either reinforcing inside (especially glassing in some heavy reinforcement) to spread the load over a larger area, and/or using an auxiliary support to the coaming or some other higher location, at least while the OB is not being used.

C Buchs
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by C Buchs » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:55 am

Here's a couple pictures of my mount. I didn't have a tape measure, so I didn't measure the stroke or possition. I was thinking that I could find the manufacturer's web site, but came up empty. Anyone know much about SysteMatched auxiliary motor backets?
Image
Image

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DaveB
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Re: Increased Respect for my 2.5 hp Kicker

Post by DaveB » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:01 pm

Chinook, I live in Cape Coral, next to Ft Myers. I have the 2.5 hp Suzuki that powers my Kodiak 8ft and Solicit 9.5 .
Also have 3- 30lb thrust elect. Kotas for kayaks 12fters or dingy.
give me a e-mail next time you are in SW FL. Will help you out.
Did you make it to Picnic Island for a Campfire?
Dave

Chinook wrote:While in the Ft. Myers area we recently experienced engine troubles. While approaching the Sanibel Bridge I inadvertently ran out of gas in the port side tank. I don't like doing that, but with all the short runs we've been making lately, I failed to switch tanks in time. It's happened before and, like usual, I disconnected from the empty tank, hooked the hose up to my full tank, squeezed the bulb several times, and restarted the engine. All is good again. Except that about 5 minutes later the engine again died. I checked the fuel line connection, made sure there were no kinks in it, confirmed that the air valve on the tank cap was open, squeezed the bulb and tried to restart. The engine would fire and then die. I realize that, in the short term at least, I was without main engine power. I lowered the 2.5 hp Suzuki kicker, which is mounted on a stern retractable bracket, started it up, locked it in place and got underway again, steering with the rudders. We went another 4 miles, at a half throttle speed of 2.5 mph, and we reached a safe anchorage an hour after dark. Next morning we changed locations to a spot above the bridge, again under kicker power, and reanchored. I couldn't come up the solution to my problem on my own, and based on the trouble coinciding with the switch over in tanks, assumed I'd gotten bad gas along the way and had water in the fuel system. I located a nearby boat yard which is also a Suzuki dealership, with certified Suzuki mechanics and haul out capabilities. They were able to schedule us for the next day, which is amazing in itself. We ran under kicker power out to a small island anchorage close to the boat yard in the late afternoon, again anchored using the kicker, and then motored with the kicker in to the boat yard this morning. It's a bit tricky maneuvering in to a dock in tight quarters with just a kicker (think no reverse, limited response steering, and throttle change/shifting into neutral only by hanging over the transom and reaching down to the kicker controls. I pulled it off without incident. The little 2.5, aided by sails when wind allowed, really gave us options in moving around while the big engine was down. In heavy seas, strong winds and/or currents it could quickly get overpowered, but in the protected waters we were in, it served ably. Oh and the engine trouble, turned out to be nothing more than a faulty squeeze bulb. The little internal check valve got stuck and wouldn't let fuel pass. The boat yard mechanic quickly found the problem and installed a new bulb. All's well that ends well, and thank you kicker, for helping us avoid needing a tow.

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