Wing-on-wing

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DaveC426913
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Wing-on-wing

Post by DaveC426913 » Tue May 24, 2016 12:51 pm

The one thing that DID go right this weekend was that I gave up trying to make the leg from Oakville to Lakeshore Yacht Club on a broad reach. I couldn't get past 2 knots, which would have made for a 5 hour trip, accompanied by about 50 extra pounds of weight in the form of gnats using my boat as a rest stop.

So, I headed out into the lake on a close haul, and had 2 glorious hours doing 4.5 - 5.5 knots. Only problem there is that, when I came abreast of home, I was still 5 miles off shore, and dead upwind.

So I set up a wing-on-wing, and sailed home doing 3 knots for over an hour. It was a beautiful thing.

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Sumner
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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by Sumner » Tue May 24, 2016 2:55 pm

Sounds like you had a great day :) :) .

Some of my most enjoyable days in the Bahamas was running....

Image

.... wing on wing at 3-6 kts.

A YouTube video heading towards West End on the way home...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQaFKv4cRXk

Sumner

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C Buchs
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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by C Buchs » Tue May 24, 2016 6:11 pm

Wing-on-Wing is the most relaxing point of sail for my crew. I see you have the main sheet attached to the pedestal. The only problem we had to first time out was accidental jibes. Then I got a tip from someone on here about attaching the main sheet to the rail where the lifeline attaches. It acts as a preventer! Now if I get a little off course relative to the wind, I don’t have to worry about my boom swinging wildly to the other side.

Jeff

DaveC426913
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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by DaveC426913 » Tue May 24, 2016 6:29 pm

C Buchs wrote:Then I got a tip from someone on here about attaching the main sheet to the rail where the lifeline attaches. It acts as a preventer!
I think that was me. :)

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Sumner
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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by Sumner » Tue May 24, 2016 7:03 pm

C Buchs wrote:...The only problem we had to first time out was accidental jibes....
I have preventers and always use them when running for piece of mind. They have proven themselves numerous times. For instance I was running for 50+ miles the day I took the video I posted and a couple times the wind shifted just enough to cause a jibe and I was running on the autopilot most of the time by myself so it was nice to have the preventers in place.

They are always in place...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... ing-9.html

...and it just takes a minute to attach them to the boom,

Sumner

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1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

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DaveC426913
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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by DaveC426913 » Tue May 24, 2016 10:59 pm

Sumner wrote:
C Buchs wrote:...The only problem we had to first time out was accidental jibes....
I have preventers and always use them when running for piece of mind. They have proven themselves numerous times. For instance I was running for 50+ miles the day I took the video I posted and a couple times the wind shifted just enough to cause a jibe and I was running on the autopilot most of the time by myself so it was nice to have the preventers in place.

They are always in place...
Ah. I've never been in a position to leave the helm for more than a minute or so. I would absolutely attach a preventer if I were to leave the helm for 10 seconds. It my have something to do with the fact that 80% of my sailing is single-handed.

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NiceAft
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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by NiceAft » Wed May 25, 2016 7:39 am

Sailing wing on wing is quite enjoyable, but I am not familiar with a “preventer”, and how it is rigged.

Ray

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Tomfoolery
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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by Tomfoolery » Wed May 25, 2016 8:39 am

NiceAft wrote:Sailing wing on wing is quite enjoyable, but I am not familiar with a “preventer”, and how it is rigged.

Ray

Image
Any line from the boom to a place forward that will stop the boom from swinging back. It doesn't have to be all that beefy, as an accidental jibe starts with the sail slightly back-winded, with the sail luffing. Like standing something tall and heavy on end (like a mast) - it takes very little to keep it there, until it moves enough that gravity gets a good bite on it, in which case it takes a lot to stop and hold it. Same with the sail; it only takes a little to prevent the accidental jibe, so the geometry can be less than ideal, and the forces will still be small. But without one, once the wind gets a hold of the sail from in front and moves the boom enough for a full bite, it's Katy bar the door. And watch your head. :D

I should add that I often have someone at the helm who doesn't pay much attention to the right things (50 years of power boating, zero years of sailing except on my boats), so an accidental jibe has a high likelihood of occurring if steps aren't taken. I've almost been knocked off the boat a few times when the helmsman is looking intently at what I'm doing at the mast rather than what the wind is doing to the sail. But what am I going to do? Yell at my 85 YO FIL? :|

Picture Martin Harvey getting knocked off the boat by the boom in Captain Ron. :D

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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by C Buchs » Wed May 25, 2016 1:03 pm

DaveC426913 wrote:
C Buchs wrote:Then I got a tip from someone on here about attaching the main sheet to the rail where the lifeline attaches. It acts as a preventer!
I think that was me. :)
Thank you!!! I'm a novice and this tip has saved me a few headaches and probably a swim or two. In light winds, I stand next to the pedestal, grab the main sheet by the top block, unhook from the pedestal with my other hand, hook to the rail, and pull the line in to get the sail where I think I want it. Super easy! I've been thinking of rigging up a second line so that I don't have to unhook from the pedestal, but so far haven't made it a priority.

Jeff

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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by NiceAft » Wed May 25, 2016 3:48 pm

Now, with the preventer in place, and an accidental jibe occurring, what happens to the boat when under those stresses? Something has got to give. The boom wants to traverse the deck. The rudders are trying to keep you going in a direction. I'm sure the Mac is heeling, so what happens?

Ray

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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by Highlander » Wed May 25, 2016 5:12 pm

NiceAft wrote:Now, with the preventer in place, and an accidental jibe occurring, what happens to the boat when under those stresses? Something has got to give. The boom wants to traverse the deck. The rudders are trying to keep you going in a direction. I'm sure the Mac is heeling, so what happens?

Ray
I usually just reach up grab & pull on the mainsheet lines just below the boom blocks & adjust my steering as necc. if the preventer is rigged right it does not take much effort but that's also depends on how much the wind has shifted !

Without the preventer U Holler "JIBE" & hope everyone was paying attention & ducks in time :|

I,ve had a few boom knock,s with accidental jibes after the last one I had more than a few yrs ago almost knocked me out & O/B & walking around with a goose egg on back of my head for as long as I could remember , I finally broke down & bought a preventer that's was on my :mac19: , its now on my :macm:
but that was away back when I was a little crazy, older now not sure I,m any wiser tho !!
J 8)

DaveC426913
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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by DaveC426913 » Wed May 25, 2016 6:00 pm

NiceAft wrote:Now, with the preventer in place, and an accidental jibe occurring, what happens to the boat when under those stresses? Something has got to give. The boom wants to traverse the deck. The rudders are trying to keep you going in a direction. I'm sure the Mac is heeling, so what happens?
The preventer stops the gybe before it gains enough momentum to do damage. Prevents a knock on the head or an exploded shackle due to a full accidental gybe.

Don't sail like that for any time.

Either push the boom back in place, or change your PoS to right it, or both - or do a controlled gybe. Whatever works.

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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by DaveC426913 » Wed May 25, 2016 6:06 pm

NiceAft wrote:Sailing wing on wing is quite enjoyable, but I am not familiar with a “preventer”, and how it is rigged.
A super-efficient way to kill two birds with one stone is to double the mainsheet as the preventer.

Simply detach the mainsheet block from the pedestal and re-attach it to the lifeline loop on the leeward rail, and sheet in.

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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by Tomfoolery » Wed May 25, 2016 9:16 pm

DaveC426913 wrote:
NiceAft wrote:Sailing wing on wing is quite enjoyable, but I am not familiar with a “preventer”, and how it is rigged.
A super-efficient way to kill two birds with one stone is to double the mainsheet as the preventer.

Simply detach the mainsheet block from the pedestal and re-attach it to the lifeline loop on the leeward rail, and sheet in.
I replaced my main sheet system with a better set of blocks (with actual rolling-element bearings! 8) ), and keep the old one for just such a job. I can leave the new system connected at the helm, and just clip the old one on as a preventer, going to the lifeline loop.

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Re: Wing-on-wing

Post by seahouse » Thu May 26, 2016 12:05 am

In light winds you can also use gravity to influence the boom to stay reaching by shifting the weight in the boat (move people around to favour that side) so the side the boom is on is lower. It also presents a slightly lower drag hull profile to the water. (If yer racin').
:wink:

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