Flipping a Macgregor

A forum for discussing topics relating to MacGregor Powersailor Sailboats

Moderators: Catigale, Paul S, Heath_Mod, beene, Hamin' X, kmclemore, tangentair

Post Reply
User avatar
Goldenist
Just Enlisted
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 11:37 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Fire Island, NY

Flipping a Macgregor

Post by Goldenist » Mon May 30, 2016 12:54 pm

Hi Everyone,

I've been reading through this website for about a year since I just purchased a 2002 Macgregor 26x.

I've grown up sailing sunfishes, lasers and flying scotts and clearly this is a big upgrade!

I know very much how to handle all of the previously mentioned boats.

On one scale you have sunfishes that flip over easy and its no big deal and then on the other you have 40 foot Benetaus which pretty much don't.

No one ever seems to be concerned that a bigger boat like a Benetau will catch a gust of wind and capsize.

With the smaller boats I always have my hand on the sheet and let it out for the gust if I want to keep the boat somewhat flat.

I guess my main question is if I'm on a beam reach and steadily heeling at 20 degrees can a gust come and capsize me with a gust?

I understand the ballast.. I've been sailing quite a few times with the Mac where I felt like it would capsize if I didnt let the sheet out so i did.

I dont know if im being too overly cautious but i cant seem to understand the physics here.

Has anyone heard of any Macs capsizing just due to wind?

Thanks guys for any help or insight!

Jason

User avatar
kmclemore
Site Admin
Posts: 5594
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:24 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Ambler, PA -- MACX2018A898 w/ Tohatsu 50D -- 78 BW Harpoon 4.6 -- 2018 Tahoe 550TF w/ 150 Merc

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by kmclemore » Mon May 30, 2016 1:20 pm

The only time I've heard of a flip in any Mac is when a boat was horribly overloaded with souls on deck and the captain was drunk. Sadly, it resulted in loss of life. Stick to the recommended weight/passenger loads, keep folks off the upper deck while under way and you'll be fine.

User avatar
NiceAft
Admiral
Posts: 4045
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:28 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by NiceAft » Mon May 30, 2016 1:49 pm

To add to Kevin's post, and to reduce your concerns, there was no wind involved, just very poor judgement. You are very safe in your Mac.

I went from sailing a Phantom sailboat (14') for thirty three years, to an :macm:. It was a steep learning curve, and this is important, the skills you learned and used in sailing those dingy's, will be of tremendous use to you in your :macx: . You developed quick response skills. That's a talent not every sailor has, but needs.

Ray

P.S. I will try to find a photo of my Phantom. You will how similar it is to a Sunfish. :)

P.P.S. I, and many other Mac owners have heeled (intentionally) their Mac's in excess of 45 degrees quite safely.
Mac's can feel tipsy, but are very stabil. A full ballast works really well. Never sail with a partially filled ballast tank.
Last edited by NiceAft on Mon May 30, 2016 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
NiceAft
Admiral
Posts: 4045
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:28 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by NiceAft » Mon May 30, 2016 1:56 pm

The Phantom next to the :macm:
Image

A much younger me in the Phantom.
Image

User avatar
Signaleer
First Officer
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:58 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Foley, Alabama...2002 26x & 2002 90 HP Mercury Salt Water 2-stroke

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by Signaleer » Mon May 30, 2016 3:31 pm

There is some good reading here on the ballast of a Mac.

https://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/p06.htm

If you have the ballast in, it will no 'flip' if you are operating within the weight limits. I know what you are thinking / feeling, but it won't. Check the article for the details.

User avatar
sailboatmike
Admiral
Posts: 1599
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:17 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Australia

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by sailboatmike » Mon May 30, 2016 4:00 pm

I would think a medium sized trailer boat like a Mac would sort of come in somewhere between a unballasted dinghy and a keel boat.

You can safely have the main sheet locked off in light winds but when the wind gets up it would be better to have it in hand so you can let it out through the gusts.

Its good policy to have the cabin hatch shut when the wind is up and if it get rough put the storm board in to stop water getting into the cabin, I know of one highly regarded trailer boat that there is only ever one record of one sinking and that was because they didnt have the hatch closed and storm boards in when it got knocked flat, needless to say it took a heap of water in the cabin and that was the end of that.

Its just common sense, as the X an open transom and no bridge deck she is susceptible to taking water into the cabin if a wave breaks into the cockpit, I will be making a 1/2 storm board to put in while sailing to stop this,and of course if it really blows up then the full storm board will go in to seal the cabin area.

The Mac is one of the most stable trailer boats I have sailed on and if treated correctly and as recommended in the manual I cant see her going over turtle

User avatar
Highlander
Admiral
Posts: 5300
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:25 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Maccutter26M 2008 75HP Merc. 4/S Victoria BC. Can. ' An Hileanto'ir III '
Contact:

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by Highlander » Mon May 30, 2016 4:48 pm

If the mast rake is set to factory settings the boat will turn up into the wind if over heeled this is a safety factor , but some of us reset the mast rake to less than factory settings for better up-wind sailing , so then u have to be more alert in gusty weather or all the time with an unskilled crew , so leave the mast rake at the factory setting until u learn how to handle & sail the boat good
but she will heel pretty far over :macm: with no issues
Then their r some of us who just got heel stuck :D :D :D having fun
http://vid844.photobucket.com/albums/ab ... 0_2495.mp4

J 8)
be safe & have fun :wink:

DaveC426913
Admiral
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:05 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Toronto Canada
Contact:

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by DaveC426913 » Mon May 30, 2016 6:40 pm

Highlander wrote:If the mast rake is set to factory settings the boat will turn up into the wind if over heeled this is a safety factor , but some of us reset the mast rake to less than factory settings for better up-wind sailing , so then u have to be more alert in gusty weather or all the time with an unskilled crew , so leave the mast rake at the factory setting until u learn how to handle & sail the boat good
I don't wish to derail this thread but I'd like to hear more about this raking of the mast to point better. I guess it's as simple as shortening the forestay? I'm not sure how much extra stay I have above the furler.

User avatar
Ixneigh
Admiral
Posts: 1923
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:00 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Key largo Florida

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by Ixneigh » Mon May 30, 2016 7:11 pm

I can vouch for the rounding up bit. The boat won't flip due to winds. If you have too much sail up you just won't be able to control it. I do a fair amount of sailing and the boat will just round up if she's had enough. The boat heels way over, rudders come out of the water and there you have it. And you won't be able to get her to go off the wind unless you take in sail or have specialized downwind gear.
Keep the heel at around 20-30 degrees. Reef the main first then roll up some jib if the wind strengthens . Or change down to a smaller hank on. I use the Hank on jibs. I have three sizes and I'm lazy so it's it's already marginal out, I'll put up the smaller one so I won't have to do it later.
I never hold the main sheet. Or hardly ever. You can head up and let the gust pass. If the gusts are frequent, reduce sail. And make sure you got the sails trimmed well, not pulled in too tight. This boat hates that. Don't take the boat in anything too deep to anchor in until you've really got a handle on stuff. Instead of thrashing your brains out wondering if it's going to flip, enjoy some nice secluded shallow area.
Ix

DaveC426913
Admiral
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:05 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Toronto Canada
Contact:

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by DaveC426913 » Mon May 30, 2016 10:46 pm

Ixneigh wrote:I can vouch for the rounding up bit. The boat won't flip due to winds. If you have too much sail up you just won't be able to control it. I do a fair amount of sailing and the boat will just round up if she's had enough. The boat heels way over, rudders come out of the water and there you have it. And you won't be able to get her to go off the wind unless you take in sail or have specialized downwind gear.
My experience as well.

When I'm single-handing in fresh winds, for fun, I often try to keep it on-the-wind no matter how high the gusts. I've had it over at 45 degrees - but it is all I can do to keep it there by falling way off, otherwise it just rounds up. Every time.

And I can only hold it there for 15 seconds or so, and it rounds up anyway.

User avatar
kadet
Admiral
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:51 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Brisbane, Australia. 2008M "Wicked Wave" Yamaha T60

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by kadet » Tue May 31, 2016 5:04 am

Please don't ever use this web site for reference material https://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/murrelet.htm the author maybe passionate about Macs but he has no real sailing experience, the site is full of misinformation and misguided opinions. With gems like this " A new or like new Mac26x is big enough for deep-sea sailing, yet they are small enough and light enough to be trailored to inland lakes unaccessable to most cruisers. They are fast under motor power when an emergency requires that. Hence, they are fit for all waters." and "MacGregor Yachts claims that the Mac26x points better than any previously built sail boat that can be trailered (including presumably the old non X Mac26 boats)." Anyone who sails an :macx: or an :macm: know they point well they point sort of :) Pointing ability is the sum of the aero and hydro drag angles these boats are no racing thoroughbreds. I love my :macm: but a Nolex 25 or Young Rocket 780 she is not. He makes a lot of statements that on the face of it look like they are supported by fact but are just plain misused, misquoted or taken out of context.


But back to the subject: Wind alone will never capsize a boat it requires wave action as well. Or gross overloading in the one documented case of a :macx: "flipping"

User avatar
Ixneigh
Admiral
Posts: 1923
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:00 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Key largo Florida

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by Ixneigh » Tue May 31, 2016 7:01 am

Wasn't that guy a cause of some flame war on sailing anarchy ?

User avatar
kmclemore
Site Admin
Posts: 5594
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:24 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Ambler, PA -- MACX2018A898 w/ Tohatsu 50D -- 78 BW Harpoon 4.6 -- 2018 Tahoe 550TF w/ 150 Merc

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by kmclemore » Tue May 31, 2016 9:40 am

Ixneigh wrote:Wasn't that guy a cause of some flame war on sailing anarchy ?
Yes. Now let's all try not to start one here, please? :)

DaveC426913
Admiral
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:05 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Toronto Canada
Contact:

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by DaveC426913 » Tue May 31, 2016 9:48 am

17mph under sail??
I'm gonna join the next club race and cross the finish line before the rest of them round the first mark!

:D

User avatar
BOAT
Admiral
Posts: 4243
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:12 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Oceanside, CA MACMJ213 2013 ETEC60

Re: Flipping a Macgregor

Post by BOAT » Tue May 31, 2016 12:27 pm

I'm not sure on the X boat, but on the M with ballast I can tell you it's impossible to "flip" the boat with just wind - can't be done.

You can hold the boat down on it's side at about 50 degrees with a constant unyielding gale of 50 miles per hour if you have all the sails up. You can increase that wind to 100 MPH but the boat is not going to heel any further than 50 degrees because all the wind spills out of the sails at that angle. (The sails get ripped off the boat at that speed). The sails are not tall enough and big enough to lift 1000 pounds of ballast out of the water. The boat is basically just an 'object' on the water like any other object at that point - be it a milk jug with some milk in it or a harbor buoy or a drift wood or anything else that floats - the wind can only push on whatever surface is exposed and there is not enough surface there to "flip" the 1000 pounds of ballast in the bottom of the boat - it never has happened, and it never will. It would take a tornado to lift 1000 pounds of ballast and there are very few tornadoes that big in the ocean.

You need a big wave to flip the boat over if the ballast is full.

Post Reply