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Running Rigging Set Up

A forum for discussing topics relating to MacGregor Powersailor Sailboats

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Running Rigging Set Up

Postby Dutch01527 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:12 pm

Hi have been experimenting with the running rigging and am pleased with my current set up:

1) Spiniker halyard used as safety forestay
2) Jib sheets back to cockpit track with cam cleat on track. I have not used the winch since this was done in wind speeds up to 15mph and seems to sail better than using the tracks nearer the mast
3) Boom brake using mountaineering figure of 8.
4) Reefing downhal running from first reeling point to deck and back to cockpit cam cleat. No need to leave cockpit to reef and can partially reef
5) Roller furler set to turn 3 times beyond fully furled which wraps the jib sheets around the sail securing it nicely
6) Adjustable Dryneema back stay
7) Tiller type auto releasing cleats for the rudders so that they will not be damaged if they hit something

The only time I would have to leave the cockpit is to add a second reef (still thinking about that one) or drop the anchor.
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Re: Running Rigging Set Up

Postby sailboatmike » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:21 pm

Are you still running the pointless 1 to 1 on the backstay?

I find no matter how hard I try I cant seem to get any bend in the mast, I was thinking 4 to 1 would be far better, I mean whats the point in having a running backstay if you cant get enough leverage on it to impart mast bend
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Re: Running Rigging Set Up

Postby Wind Chime » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:45 pm

We have a 4:1 adjustable back stay and it works very well.

Although might seem a little quirky - as it's pulling from the starboard stern only, but not a big enough deal to rerun the backstay to an inverted "V " from port and starboard to pull from center amidship.

Doesn't affect the headsail sag much because of the 7/8 fractional eig, but really flattens the top of the mainsail in higher wind.
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Re: Running Rigging Set Up

Postby Baha » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:06 am

If you do a lot of single-handing, you might consider rigging an anchor off the stern. That way, if the stuff hits the fan, you have a sure way to stop.
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Re: Running Rigging Set Up

Postby Wind Chime » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:21 am

We have a small grapnel with 50' if line in a bag hanging on the starboard stern.

Have used it on a few occasions. It doesn't hold well in most bottoms for long, but snags a slows the boat.

Used it twice in low grade emergency situations.
- dock line fouled around prop at gas dock. Blown off dock down the fairway and tossed grapnel onto passing dock and pulled boat out of fairway.
- motor died waiting for train bridge to open, tossed grapnel over the side and it snagged and grabbed enough to sort out the engine kill switch issue and get engine started.
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Re: Running Rigging Set Up

Postby grady » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:26 am

Wind Chime wrote:really flattens the top of the mainsail in higher wind.


If you loosen your lowers some it will allow the lower part of the mast to bend and help flatten the lower part of the sail.

I put the stock 4 to 1 MacGregor vang control on the back stay using a block on the back stay giving a 2 to 1 on the 4 to 1 making 8 to 1. With that set up you can overbend the mast. I can get around 5 to 6 inches of bend. 4 to 1 would be sufficient for anyone wanting to add an adjuster to their back stay.
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Re: Running Rigging Set Up

Postby Wind Chime » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:52 pm

grady wrote:
Wind Chime wrote:really flattens the top of the mainsail in higher wind.


If you loosen your lowers some it will allow the lower part of the mast to bend and help flatten the lower part of the sail.


Good Point.

Ya, using mast bend as a fine tuning to hardening sails in higher winds is s minimal result, and quite difficult understand the dynamic at work especially in fraction Rig.

In general., As the mast top bends aft and down this forces the upper centre of the mast forward with flattens the middle upper sections of the sail, more or less. I hope someone chimes in with a better explanation than I've been able to give :)

General rule of thumb is back stay loose in light wind, Harding up in higher wind.
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Re: Running Rigging Set Up

Postby Dutch01527 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:10 pm

sailboatmike wrote:Are you still running the pointless 1 to 1 on the backstay?

I find no matter how hard I try I cant seem to get any bend in the mast, I was thinking 4 to 1 would be far better, I mean whats the point in having a running backstay if you cant get enough leverage on it to impart mast bend



No. I have a 3:1 block set up with a cam cleat. Seems to be more than enough power to induce mast bend with a strong pull.
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Re: Running Rigging Set Up

Postby C Buchs » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:08 pm

Dutch01527 wrote:
sailboatmike wrote:Are you still running the pointless 1 to 1 on the backstay?

I find no matter how hard I try I cant seem to get any bend in the mast, I was thinking 4 to 1 would be far better, I mean whats the point in having a running backstay if you cant get enough leverage on it to impart mast bend



No. I have a 3:1 block set up with a cam cleat. Seems to be more than enough power to induce mast bend with a strong pull.


My backstay adjustment line is attached to the dock cleat. I would really like to have this cleat available. Does everyone use/recommend a block with a cam cleat? I just noticed that the kit BWY sells comes with it setup that way.

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Re: Running Rigging Set Up

Postby Tomfoolery » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:07 pm

C Buchs wrote:My backstay adjustment line is attached to the dock cleat. I would really like to have this cleat available. Does everyone use/recommend a block with a cam cleat? I just noticed that the kit BWY sells comes with it setup that way.

I would suggest taking the main sheet system off, replacing it with the air block fiddle block kit from BWY (ball bearings - much easier to use under load), and using the old main sheet system for the backstay. :wink:
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Re: Running Rigging Set Up

Postby C Buchs » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:58 pm

Tomfoolery wrote:
C Buchs wrote:My backstay adjustment line is attached to the dock cleat. I would really like to have this cleat available. Does everyone use/recommend a block with a cam cleat? I just noticed that the kit BWY sells comes with it setup that way.

I would suggest taking the main sheet system off, replacing it with the air block fiddle block kit from BWY (ball bearings - much easier to use under load), and using the old main sheet system for the backstay. :wink:


This one?
https://shop.bwyachts.com/product-p/3310-000.htm

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Re: Running Rigging Set Up

Postby Tomfoolery » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:22 am

C Buchs wrote:
Tomfoolery wrote:
C Buchs wrote:My backstay adjustment line is attached to the dock cleat. I would really like to have this cleat available. Does everyone use/recommend a block with a cam cleat? I just noticed that the kit BWY sells comes with it setup that way.

I would suggest taking the main sheet system off, replacing it with the air block fiddle block kit from BWY (ball bearings - much easier to use under load), and using the old main sheet system for the backstay. :wink:


This one?
https://shop.bwyachts.com/product-p/3310-000.htm

That's the one. And if you look at the backstay adjuster kit from BWY ($179), it comes with a new (shorter) backstay, and the same blocks as the original mainsheet, complete with cam cleat. https://shop.bwyachts.com/product-p/3441-1x0.htm

If you can shorten the backstay yourself, which is easy (and if you don't have a swage tool, it's worth it to buy one, or use the one at a West Marine store for free), you can end up with a much improved main sheet system and a backstay adjuster, all for less money, by retasking the original mainsheet system (with much shorter line) to back stay duty, and using the much smoother running new air blocks for the mainsheet.

My main sheet air blocks came with line, but that's not shown in the pic. I don't know if something has changed there. But you don't need much line for a backstay adjuster, so even if you buy new line, it won't be much, and it can be smaller if you like than the original 5/16" that the main sheet used, though it gets hard to work when the line is too small.

I don't have a backstay adjuster, other than the turnbuckle I use to preload it a little when I first put the mast up, but I do use the old mainsheet system as a second mainsheet some times (since the X doesn't have a traveler), mostly to pull the boom down (better geometry than the vang) when the boom is out, and even as a preventer on ocassion, though I have another line that also can do that. But I do put it to work once in a while. Blocks and lines never go to waste on a sailboat. :D
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Re: Running Rigging Set Up

Postby Dutch01527 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:40 am

I shortened the back stay by buying a length of 4mm dyneema rope and splicing it. Stronger than the wire original and better suited to a trailer sailer when dropping the mast.

I can see no advantage of using wire.
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