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V berth floatation chamber

A forum for discussing topics relating to MacGregor Powersailor Sailboats

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Re: V berth floatation chamber

Postby sailboatmike » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:01 am

(read in a Russian accent) You rich capitalist yachtie pigs need to tow the party line, we know what is good for you and you will do as we "advise" or Boris will come visit with a new pair cement shoes.

We have a "friend" very high in your government and he is very keen on Pee Pee, we have the tapes to prove it :D :D :D :D 8)
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Re: V berth floatation chamber

Postby K9Kampers » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:11 am

sailboatmike wrote:(read in a Russian accent) You rich capitalist yachtie pigs need to tow zee party line, we know what is good for you and you will do as we "advise" or Boris will come visit with a new pair cement shoes.

We have a "friend" very high in your gowernment and he is very keen on Pee Pee, we have the tapes to prove it :D :D :D :D 8)


Foolgle Translate:
{You weech kapitaleest yaahtie peegs need to tow the partie line, vee know Boreez vill come wisit vith a new pair ov cement shoez.

Vee have a "freeind" in your government and he iss wery keen on pee pee, ve have zee tapes to proof eet.}
:P :wink:
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Re: V berth floatation chamber

Postby Catigale » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:09 pm

Those charted no discharge zones are for untreated sewage - not grey water. Unless local rules are passed, grey water can be discharged overboard. Of course, if you are in marina or small bay, its un-seamanlike to discharge anything other than bilge.
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Re: V berth floatation chamber

Postby BOAT » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:09 pm

Catigale wrote:Those charted no discharge zones are for untreated sewage - not grey water. Unless local rules are passed, grey water can be discharged overboard. Of course, if you are in marina or small bay, its un-seamanlike to discharge anything other than bilge.


:o Oooooooh, really bad luck Catigale, :? I'm sorry, you just got banned from Catalina, unfortunately you did not read SEC. 10‑2.503 CONTAMINATING WATERS AND BEACHES section e:
"(e) It shall be unlawful for any person owning, managing, controlling, operating, navigating or otherwise handling any boat, vessel, ship, or barge to discharge, or cause to be discharged, any ballast water, bilge water or waste water . . . "


In California we have things called a "DISCHARGE ORDINANCE" that is not recognized by NOAA because NOAA is a department of the Federal Government of the United States of America, that's not the same as California. And since you have no settling tank in your MAC for bilge water that means your guilty of two counts of violation: Bilge water and Sink water. Ouch! The penalty is rather stiff I'm afraid:

"Harbor Master or harbor patrol officer shall issue an order barring the vessel and the person owning and/or in possession of the vessel from entering City waters on the subject vessel and any other vessel under the person's ownership or control. In the case of discharge, the order shall be for a period of one(1) years, effective immediately. In the case of tampering or removal of dye tablets or performance of testing, the order shall be for a period of two (2) years, effectively immediately. . . "


You need to take the BLUE pill over the RED pill, that's a mandatory boarding and a two year suspension from mooring within the city limits (which unfortunately according to the adopted ordinance includes Descanso, Two Harbors, and Howlands landing).

You probably trusted your NOAA charts but unfortunately in California the ruling authority is the CCC, comrade. That means there are overriding Ordinances and regional rules that don't show up on the usual 'Aids to Navigation" we all have grown to trust. We all know these hazard codes: Rk, R or Rks - Rock or Rocks Hk or Wk - Hulk or Wreck Obstn - Submerged Obstruction or Co = Coral Foul or Foul Ground but in my opinion NOAA needs to add a new danger hazard code for Coastal Commission jurisdiction - CCC - Collectivists Rules in Area.


But hey, you do get one appeal! The law states:
"The order may be appealed pursuant to the provisions of Section 10-2.217." (Unfortunate for you requires going to court).

You see, this is California, not the United States of America, that's okay, lots of Americans make that mistake when they come here: (even the tourist's here from Germany here have a saying when people from the United States show up, they say: "Oh, Those Americans!") :D Oh well, live and learn.

It's okay, honest mistake, lot's of Americans show up here thinking their US Constitutional Rights apply - it's not your fault.
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Re: V berth floatation chamber

Postby sailboatmike » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:04 am

So what your saying Boat is that the USA is not actually one country with 50 states, its more like 50 countries with one overseeing government. much like the EU.

You should have a plan to leave the union, you could call it FEDEX :D
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Re: V berth floatation chamber

Postby BOAT » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:07 am

sailboatmike wrote:So what your saying Boat is that the USA is not actually one country with 50 states, its more like 50 countries with one overseeing government. much like the EU.

You should have a plan to leave the union, you could call it FEDEX :D


Yeah Mike, you'd like to think that, I mean it was the original idea of the founding fathers that States Rights would trump all other rights except those specifically decided by the States to be in the authority of the Federal Government. The whole point of the States Rights structure of the Founding Fathers was to limit the power of the Federal Government. Now, I am a big fan of States Rights, just like the Founding Fathers, but there is a point where the right of one state tramples on the rights of another state. In the case of the Confederacy, the slave states were exploiting slave labor cheaply and exporting goods expensively to the north. To make matters worse, when slaves got old, sick, or were of no use to the South anymore they were released and sent to the North. The North ended up paying for the welfare of released slaves that were exploited to get money from the North. The people of the North felt they were getting ripped off by their own country, (and they were).

The same plantation system is in place in California now. We import millions of illegal migrants (they need to be illegal or they can't be exploited) and use that money to export expensive stuff to the rest of you in America. When the migrants become established enough to make a good living (and get smart enough) they leave California and spread out over the rest of America in search of better paying jobs. That leaves room for more people to be imported back into California - that's why you never hear Sacramento complain about all the people leaving California - that was their plan from the get go. The wealthy ruling class here are not effected by any of this - they live in secluded protected places along the coast and so forth, so they love the system. They import the exploitable and when they are no longer exploitable they export them to you, and then import more exploitable. That's how they get so rich, they do it with your money.

Eventually, this will, of course, lead to civil war - been there - done that - sooner or later California will vote to succeed. When they do, of course the rest of you will not allow it, because it would be like letting someone take away 25 % of what you have in your bank account for no reason. 25% of Americas resources (food, oil, minerals, Asian Shipping goods, seafood, etc . . comes from California), California does not belong only to Californians, it belongs to all of America, but get ready - they plan to steal it from you.
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Re: V berth floatation chamber

Postby Catigale » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:06 am

I don't get that Boat.

Sailboats with inboards have stuffing boxes that seep and bilges that thus accumulate water. Are telling me you have to let your boat sink at Catalina?

:D
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Re: V berth floatation chamber

Postby Ponaldpe » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:29 am

Boat ; What about the A/C unit it is always discharging?
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Re: V berth floatation chamber

Postby RussMT » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:00 pm

Ponaldpe wrote:Boat ; What about the A/C unit it is always discharging?


Or your engine cooling water. I guess at Catalina you have to sail in/out of the harbor.
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Re: V berth floatation chamber

Postby BOAT » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:50 am

The ordinance does not allow gray water to be discharged - some people think that because there is no specific statement in the ordinance distinguishing between sink water and toilet water that it's okay to run the sink water out of the boat, but I assure you there is a 50/50 chance the patrol will cite you if they see sink water coming out of the boat depending on how they feel that day. I have seen them use sink water to ban people. (Usually it's because they are too loud or they do something the patrol does not like so they use the discharge ordinance to kick them out) - it's typical gestapo tactics. Remember - this is California, even "free speech" is regulated.

Section a encompasses everything - they did it that way on purpose so they could enforce whatever they felt like at any time:
SEC. 10‑2.503(a)
. . . . . any kind, any refuse matter of any description into the navigable waters of the City.


The ordinance is very clear on bilge water:
(e)
. . . . . unless such ballast water, bilge water or waste water is dis­charged into suitable and adequate settling basins, tanks or other receptacles.

So in answer to your question: Yes, it's true - you can't pump your bilge into the harbor unless the bilge has been settled in a tank to remove all oil and chemicals.
Yes, it's true that you can not put your sink water into the harbor. (This is enforced unevenly)
No, the rules do not apply to outboard motors because there are other EPA laws that pertain to the manufacture of outboards and how they use water and what pollutants are present - but I assure you - because of the way the ordinance is written they COULD ban you because of your outboard if they could prove there was any oil coming out of it.

If they know you and your in the files it's not usually a big deal. 'boat' is on file there, all insurance records, copy of registration, records and so forth are in the files at Avalon for 'boat' so when we show up there all we do is drive up to the patrol boat that is almost always in the outer harbor and tell them how many nights we need, that's it. The patrol puts our CF number into their computer thing and everything he needs is right there - he just calls out a mooring buoy number to us and away we go - that's it. after we are tied to the mooring another patrol comes and charges our credit card and gives me a receipt. That's it - they don't board us, no dye pills, and no rubber plugs for our sinks.

But if they don't know you or your boat, chances are good you will be boarded and inspected and request a stopper put in your sink.

The law is written in a way that they can do anything they want - that's on purpose - Nazi's abound here. This is California, you have no rights.
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