Clanging Swing-Keel

[rsvpasap]

I have a 2002 26x and I would like to overnight more often on the boat. At anchor, and frequently even at a dock, the boat bobs around alot. I'm not concerned about pitch or yaw; the roll is killing me.

The weight is balanced and low on my boat, all batteries are secured in the boats' center beneath the dinette aft seat against the swing keel enclosure, 32 gallons of water evenly disbursed under the v-berth, four rocker-stoppers on each side with 10 lb weights and a riding sail when needed, plus I leave the rudders in the water.

But the most effective thing to stop side-to-side rolling is to lower the swing keel (or "center-board," the boat is a 26x). Unfortunately, this creates an extremely noisy ruckus from the swing-keel enclosure that prevents sleeping, makes conversation difficult and harshes a good mood.

I'm aware of two things 26x owners have done to eliminate the clanging of the keel.

One: Put "padding" inside the forward end of the swing-keel enclosure and on the top of the board to stop the top of the board from undulating back and forth. http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/index.php?view=390

Two: Install a sheath in the keel to stabilize the board on the pin/bolt that keel pivot's upon.
See "Pivot Point Repair"
http://www.enctrader.com/hardtlefamily/ ... reMods.htm
also viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17925&start=0
also, for different purposes, http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/index.php?view=211

Or both! http://www.nobodyinlondon.com/ironengin ... nterb.html also viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19298

And some say it is a bad idea to stabilize the top of the swing-keel because the stresses are such that you're going to end up sheering the pin. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26003&p=322656

I would prefer to not add lead to the swing-keel or outriggers like MadMike. It's doubtful either of those would help this problem anyway.

I'm inclined to try the more simple solution first - putting padding inside the forward part of the keel enclosure and on the top of the board.

Does anyone have any suggestions, experience, advice, opinions?

[Harry van der Meer]

I use Magma R10702 Rock N Roll Stabilizer suspended from the boom. I secure the boom outward as much as possible to increase leverage. Works extremely well. You could use a second one suspended from a whisker pole.

[ris]

We at first also tried to stop some of the rocking while at anchor. With the keel down it definitely helps with the rocking but the thumping of the keel is worse than the rock. Rocker stoppers were not a lot of help, and they take up room and take time to deploy. Our answer to the problem is pick better anchorages. After a couple of months on the boat we really did not notice the rocking as much and we got better at picking places to anchor. A heavier boat is the best answer. A mac is just going to roll and rock. We were in Two Rivers Wisconsin at a small marina and the waves from Lake Michigan would come in the river mouth hit a concrete wall and then bounce left and right down each river. You could watch the boats closest to the river mouth start bouncing and it would work its way down the line of boats moored to the side of the river. No lie the mac was rolling side to side at least 2 feet. I was sitting there talking to a guy as we watched the boats rock and he asked where my wife was and I told him she was on the boat. He said" NO WAY" and I said she is actually sleeping. He was amazed. I have ever since wished I had taken a video.

[whgoffrn]

I too also have been using the Davis rocker stoppers but I had 16 of them 4 on each stanchion....it does work but at quite cost of space....so I'm also considering the magma rock n roll stabilizer ...glad to hear it works good as it's a bit expensive

[Don T]

Hello,
I am still using that mod (adding pads to reduce play) with zero difficulties after 20+ years in operation, I recommend it.
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/index.php?view=390


Still sleeping well,

[whgoffrn]

Don I love the idea just dont know how to recreate this ....it would take a ton of trial and error to get the clearances correct so it stopped the noise yet still functions properly

[Don T]

Hello,
It's not that hard really. I had the keel out for replacement anyway. Early boats had keel failures do to water freezing and cracking / splitting down the edges. I took that opportunity to do the mod. You have to remove the keel to install the nylon shims at the top of the board. With careful measurements you will get it right. It's worth the work, really.

Good luck and feel free to ask as many questions as you need to along the way.

Don

[Wayne nicol]

heres what i would do.
same as on my
deploy the foil, tie a line to the gunwale, about midships, walk the line around, on the outside of the shrouds, go under the bow, all the way down the other side, ( lift rudders and motor) and back to the starting point, pull the line up snug and tie it off, or better yet cleat it!

now you have your board trapped, and pulled up against one side opf the trunk, keeping it from clanging, and no ill effects on it long term.

[Chinook]

You might consider using a stern anchor. If set at the proper angle, it can hold the boat so it points into the swell, as opposed to taking the swell on the beam. Sometimes, when in bays or coves, the swell can refract around at a different angle than the wind, and a stern anchor can be very helpful in holding the boat into a more comfortable angle. I carry a stern anchor, chain and rode on a stern rail mounted bag for these situations. Setting a stern anchor can be challenging, but with practice, it does help.

[rsvpasap]

Thank you all for the excellent advice. If anyone has other ideas, please post them. I would like a permanent solution, so I plan to copy Don T"s mod the next time my boat is out of the water. But for a short-term solution, Wayne nicol, your technique is brilliant! I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it myself.

[whgoffrn]

Chinook just curious how do you deal with squalls in the middle of the night....I've only tried the stern anchor one time and all was fine until 2am when I storm rolled through and wind changed direction blowing hard ...30kt?? Right on the beam ....I had to cut the line because there was too much tension to let it go.. I've not tried it since but wondered if there was an easier way to deal with those times

[Wayne nicol]

yer welcome mate, its just what works for me, i have a daggerboard in my boat, i am quite wary of getting the foils stuck, and i just feel reducing the clearances may contribute to that- with some gunk in there- doesnt even need to be sea growth, but the noise can be annoying, its the best solution for me- no damage, less risk of jamming, dead quiet, doesn't affect the long-term ease of use for the relative foil, and best of all its free

i think thats why my favourite board system would have to be leeboards.
i like the simplicity, redundancy, space saving, and limitless tunability with them

[Wayne nicol]

for absolute fear of starting another anchoring thread i will refrain from too much detail, but this is one of the reasons i love my version of the Bahamian moor!- little different from how most set it up.
it does not replace a stern anchor system, but the boat will swing to the strongest prevailing weather condition, whether it be tide, current, wave or wind. Without any fear of anchors dragging or having to reset.
this combined with the rope trap may resolve your problem.
with the board down and the bahamian moor, the macs will also hunt less at anchor.

another thing to do, that really stabilises the macs at anchor, is to NOT attach the anchor rode to the bow, but rather about 6' back onto the one gunnel( i like the gunwale on the opposite side of my BBQ- so that the smoke etc blows overboard, not inboard ) that will help stop a lot of hunting and will further reduce the clanging.
put in a good heavy duty cleat at the position, then run the bitter end outside the stanchions back to one of the original cleats.
i always affix the rode to at least two cleats when anchoring, just being A.R. about redundancy and back up
as this method of anchoring will put a bit more load onto the cleat and the anchor- so have a good handle on all of that. in big winds, i actually attach a snubber from the eyebolt (for the trailer winch) to the rode. stops the bow from burying, and the boat sitting stern up under load, this also reduces the tension on all hardware at anchor, which is important in big winds, but she will hunt again like this.

whatever you do, best of luck, and its all fun , no matter what we do- we all have our own way of doing things

[Chinook]

If you have good enough info to know there is a threat of squalls and a sudden, strong shift in wind direction, stern anchor would definitely be a bad idea. You really need to have a good anchor which has a fighting chance of resetting. Most dramatic example of that, for us, occurred in the Berry Islands, Bahamas. I didn't have any weather info (no reception for my single side band receiver), but went to bed, anchored just off the beach on the west side of Whale Cay. Conditions were nearly calm, with a light southerly breeze. I set the anchor parallel to shore, facing south. Anchor at that time was a Bruce (I now use a Rochna). About 2am a sudden squall hit the boat, with wind out of the north. By the time I got on deck it was blowing at least 40 knots and I knew that, if the anchor hadn't reset, we were being blown rapidly downwind. I grabbed the spotlight and played it onshore, and was relieved to see that the shoreline wasn't moving. The boat had shifted 180 degrees in orientation, but the anchor had reset. I let out more scope and maintained an anchor watch for the next 2 hours, checking with the spotlight for any sign of anchor drag. She held firm and about 4am I was able to go below and sleep. After I got up I checked our position and realized that the Bruce had reset almost immediately. My appreciation for that anchor really increased after that incident. The Rochna I'm now using is even heavier than the Bruce, and I'm confident that its resetting capability is even greater.

[Seapup]

Are you having problems rolling in the marina slip in the picture (looks like a beautiful place) or anchored?

I added 75lbs lead shot to my centerboard on my and still didn't notice it or the rudders make a noticeable difference up or down vs rolling.

Keeping the bow into the swell and minimizing swing through anchoring techniques like stern anchor and bahama moor with a swell bridle seemed to work best.

I often used a bahama moor with my If it was a wind or often lack of wind against swell used a line from the back anchor rode to rear cleat similar to this picture, it then works as a stern anchor. If wind picked up uncleat the secondary line and it hangs off the rode until retrieval and you still have a traditional bahama moor off the bow.



http://dreamtimesail.blogspot.com/2015/09/how-to-avoid-rolling-all-night-at-anchor.html

I just used a spare dock line for the bridle, the loop on the end makes an easy prusik loop attachment.