Forum Home
IntroductionBrowse
Our MacGregorExploringArticlesAbout this Website
ManualsDealer InfoSailing LinksSupport this Website
Forum Home

Steering wander

A forum for discussing topics relating to MacGregor Powersailor Sailboats

Moderators: Paul S, tangentair, beene, Heath_Mod, Hamin' X, kmclemore, Catigale

Steering wander

Postby gyroplanes » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:03 pm

My :macx: (1998) Suzuki DF90 was no fun to pilot up the mighty Calumet River (south Chicago) I had all I could do to keep it between the banks.

I noticed the PO had changed the steering cable to the new, preferred, option. Being nice to Ohana after seasons of neglect, I decided to opt for hydraulic steering. I bought the unit and found it easy to install (not so much, the hoses) filling and flushing was easy.

WOW, what a difference. Precise and instant handling.

I would offer the details of the brands, but Ohana is on the hard at the marina and I am 17 miles away. If any paperwork survived the great mold takeover I can provide the info when the mold lets me back in.
User avatar
gyroplanes
Engineer
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:23 pm
Location: Lansing, Illinois (Chicago, so suburb)
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X

Re: Steering wander

Postby NiceAft » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:25 pm

“Precise and instant handling. ”

I read this, and was surprised. Several years ago I was allowed to take the helm of a 60 foot catamaran. The captain warned me that because of the boats hydraulic steering, “there will be a delay in reaction to wheel movements”, and he was correct. So, when I read “instant handling”, I am a bit surprised.

Ray

Image
User avatar
NiceAft
Admiral
 
Posts: 4024
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M

Re: Steering wander

Postby gyroplanes » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:29 pm

They probably had an air bubble in the system?

As I understand, since a liquid is almost nearly in-compressible, any action is transmitted and actuated at the speed of sound through the fluid.
Think of auto brakes.

My :macx: hydraulic conversion made all the difference in the world.
User avatar
gyroplanes
Engineer
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:23 pm
Location: Lansing, Illinois (Chicago, so suburb)
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X

Re: Steering wander

Postby NiceAft » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:37 pm

gyroplanes wrote:They probably had an air bubble in the system?

As I understand, since a liquid is almost nearly in-compressible, any action is transmitted and actuated at the speed of sound through the fluid.
Think of auto brakes.

My :macx: hydraulic conversion made all the difference in the world.


Makes sense, except for the speed of sound statement. I should have remembered that a liquid can’t be compressed. Pressure on one end, pressure on the other.

Ray
User avatar
NiceAft
Admiral
 
Posts: 4024
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M

Re: Steering wander

Postby DaveC426913 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:16 pm

NiceAft wrote:Makes sense, except for the speed of sound statement. I should have remembered that a liquid can’t be compressed. Pressure on one end, pressure on the other.

No, he's correct about that. Pressure waves travel at the speed of sound of the material.

Now, since that's somewhere in excess of 4km/s for hydraulic fluid, it is effectively instant (~ 1 millisecond) over the length of a steering cable.
DaveC426913
Admiral
 
Posts: 1279
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Toronto Canada
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X

Re: Steering wander

Postby NiceAft » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:27 pm

DaveC426913 wrote:
NiceAft wrote:Makes sense, except for the speed of sound statement. I should have remembered that a liquid can’t be compressed. Pressure on one end, pressure on the other.

No, he's correct about that. Pressure waves travel at the speed of sound of the material.

Now, since that's somewhere in excess of 4km/s for hydraulic fluid, it is effectively instant (~ 1 millisecond) over the length of a steering cable.


I am always amazed at the varried knowledge on this site. I knew about the liquid not being able to being compressed, just not about the speed of sound factor.

Gyroplanes, my humble apologies.

Ray
User avatar
NiceAft
Admiral
 
Posts: 4024
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M

Re: Steering wander

Postby bwygirl » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:18 pm

How did you find the boat handle with hydraulic steering when sailing? Were you able to feel the steering at all? Ok, yes folks before you jump on me, it is difficult to feel the steering of the MacGregor under sail but it is possible. It just takes some practice. If possible handle a tiller steered boat sometime and then go to your X or M, you will be able to feel the steering as the rudders catch the water and begin the turns. I have not sailed a boat with hydraulic steering. Now, motoring yes that would be good.
bwygirl
Engineer
 
Posts: 185
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:45 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M

Re: Steering wander

Postby NiceAft » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:06 pm

bwygirl wrote:How did you find the boat handle with hydraulic steering when sailing? Were you able to feel the steering at all? Ok, yes folks before you jump on me, it is difficult to feel the steering of the MacGregor under sail but it is possible. It just takes some practice. If possible handle a tiller steered boat sometime and then go to your X or M, you will be able to feel the steering as the rudders catch the water and begin the turns. I have not sailed a boat with hydraulic steering. Now, motoring yes that would be good.



At first, I did not understand what you meant by "feel the steering", but then realized what you meant.

On my :macm: (no hydraulic steering) , it took me awhile to get the "feel" as you said.

On that 60' catamaran, it was not easy to keep on a course, but now I realize a bubble was probably in the hydraulics.

I'd also like to see gyroplane's answer to your question.

Ray
User avatar
NiceAft
Admiral
 
Posts: 4024
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M

Re: Steering wander

Postby Highlander » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:01 pm

I know Ross installed hydraulic steering on his M & said he lost the helm feed back with it that he had with the cable system when the eng. was disconnected !
J 8)
User avatar
Highlander
Admiral
 
Posts: 5297
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:25 pm
Location: Maccutter26M 2008 75HP Merc. 4/S Victoria BC. Can. ' An Hileanto'ir III '
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M

Re: Steering wander

Postby DaveC426913 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:36 pm

NiceAft wrote:
DaveC426913 wrote:I am always amazed at the varried knowledge on this site. I knew about the liquid not being able to being compressed, just not about the speed of sound factor.

Admittedly, my knowledge comes, not from mechanics, but from physics.

Online discussions about infinitely rigid poles transmitting signals at super-relativistic speeds invariably lead to explanations of mechanical transmission in real-world materials. :)
DaveC426913
Admiral
 
Posts: 1279
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Toronto Canada
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X

Re: Steering wander

Postby NiceAft » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:39 pm

Yeh,
Whatever you just said :D

Ray
User avatar
NiceAft
Admiral
 
Posts: 4024
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M


Return to MacGregor Powersailor Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Copyright 2004 - 2019 © HK Innovations