Standing Rigging Tension?

[RobertB]

Just read thru the whole thread and still wondering:

What to tension the shrouds on an ?

Is it 15% lower, 20% upper? Or 20% lower and 25% upper? 10% lower and 15% upper? [Percent of breaking strength]

Just received my Loos PT-1 and ready to stretch

[mika]

Victor - Your link to "onlinemarine" doesn't work for me. When I type it into my address bar, it takes me to West Marine. Are they one in the same? West Marine wants $99 plus shipping for the same Loose gauge. How can I get that $88 price?
- Thanks

[taime1]

West Marine wants $99 plus shipping for the same Loose gauge. How can I get that $88 price?
- Thanks

IIRC, the $88 was a sale price at Defender at the time. The current price is $96.99 as seen here: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=155885

[BOAT]

Man, I'm probably going to get slammed for this but I tension the inside stays based on the recommended 180 to 270 - the inside stays need to be set so that the mast does not warp in the middle - if it's holding straight your pretty good - just do those inner stays the way everyone here tells you to do them or based on the factory specs.

The outer stays (and this is where I will get slammed) I set based on the deflection in the Genoa luff. If the Genoa luff is pretty straight at 18 knot wind, I'm good - if the Genoa luff is really bowed bad at 18 knot wind - I tighten the outer side stays. I get the Genoa trimmed just how I like it and THEN I check the side stays with the Loose Gauge and it comes out to about 290 on the upper side stays. I check the inner stays at that point too, but it's not that big a deal unless I see warping in the mast - you can get your sails to 'pump' too if the side stays are not correct. (That is a bad thing)

If the main is pumping (VERY rare) check the inner side stays - if the Genoa is pumping (VERY common) check outer stays, (well inner ones too because as soon as you correct the outer ones the inner ones might not be happy).

Fractional rigs are quirky - you need to set up based on your sailing conditions to some extent. I have noticed that people in smooth water (inland water bays or lakes) tend to have looser rigs. The mast does not take a pounding. Ocean or Great Lakes sailboats are usually tight to keep things in place during wave pounding. I do know that the tighter the rig the less difference in tensions there will be under way from left to right, the looser the rig the greater the difference. Not really a bad thing, it just depends on your type of sailing. Deflection can actually be good in light winds and I have seen guys loosen stays in races when the wind dies. I would never recommend that ( well, we CAN'T do that cuz we don't have turnbuckles) but still, adjusting stays underway is for people who really know what they are doing. My dad used to do it and he said it was the best way. Still I can't recommend it. I have friends with very big boats who do it with wrenches and stuff but I do not do it. I do it on the trailer only.

[Hugh]

To resurrect this thread a wee bit of clarification please.
26M stay tension settings:
After a few years of using dealers setup on our mast rigging,and finding we get serious weather helm action, I'm looking at stay tensions
On the water Trying to keep boat level and balanced with mast rotation straight,Using a loos tension gauge I got these readings: Port outer 260# starboard outer 260#
Port inner 220# starboard inner 180#
I've read a long thread on Macgregorsailors and feel I should be >300# on outers and 280# inners.
Thoughts on if this thinking is correct.

I'm thinking I'll use the mast raiser to lower mast a bit to allow for tightening/adjusting tension. Can one adjust tension with mast in place and just pulling on stay to take off tension?
Anything else?
Edit Using the mast raise crutch I slacked the mast and shortened outside stay by
One hole using the same hole
On the bottom but shortening the actual stay by
One hole.
Readings now port outer 520# and starboard outer 520+#
Port
Immer260# starboard inner 200#
Not sure if I should tighten the starboard inner a hole...

[Phil M]

I used these for my : lower stays at 35 (270 lbs) and upper stays at 39-40 (330-350 lbs)using loos gauge. It's very important that opposite sides be equal tension.
Yes, use the mast raising system (mrs) to ease the tension.
And remember to grease the bottom rotation washers.

[Hugh]

Shortened the starboard inner stay one hole:
New readings:
Outer Port outer 520 starboard outer 470
Inner port 240 inner starboard 200#
Not sure how to adjust outers for any less tension in that I've only shortened the stay one hole. Is there any 1/2 measure I could do?

[paul I]

I used these for my : lower stays at 35 (270 lbs) and upper stays at 39-40 (330-350 lbs)using loos gauge. It's very important that opposite sides be equal tension.
Yes, use the mast raising system (mrs) to ease the tension.
And remember to grease the bottom rotation washers.

my Loos instructions for a PT-1 using 5/32 cable gives 35= 480 lbs, 39-40 = 700-800 lbs. See the attached: http://loosnaples.com/how-to-use-pt-ser ... ion-gauges

Did they change the scale at some point?

[Tomfoolery]

Shortened the starboard inner stay one hole:
New readings:
Outer Port outer 520 starboard outer 470
Inner port 240 inner starboard 200#
Not sure how to adjust outers for any less tension in that I've only shortened the stay one hole. Is there any 1/2 measure I could do?

That sounds like a lot of additional stay tension for a 1/8" shortening of a lower stay. But you can extend the forestay a little at a time, even with load on it, to reduce the shroud tension.

[Phil M]

I used these for my : lower stays at 35 (270 lbs) and upper stays at 39-40 (330-350 lbs)using loos gauge. It's very important that opposite sides be equal tension.
Yes, use the mast raising system (mrs) to ease the tension.
And remember to grease the bottom rotation washers.

my Loos instructions for a PT-1 using 5/32 cable gives 35= 480 lbs, 39-40 = 700-800 lbs. See the attached: http://loosnaples.com/how-to-use-pt-ser ... ion-gauges

Did they change the scale at some point?

My gauge is a Model A - Loos part number 91. Refer to the pounds of tension rather than my number on the model A.

I purchased my gauge about 5 years ago.

[Hugh]

Shortened the starboard inner stay one hole:
New readings:
Outer Port outer 520 starboard outer 470
Inner port 240 inner starboard 200#
Not sure how to adjust outers for any less tension in that I've only shortened the stay one hole. Is there any 1/2 measure I could do?

That sounds like a lot of additional stay tension for a 1/8" shortening of a lower stay. But you can extend the forestay a little at a time, even with load on it, to reduce the shroud tension.

Totally dumb about forestay with Cdn furler. How does one adjust the forestay? Purchased boat with furler installed and can't figure out where Ican adjust. Let alone get a tension reading

[Hugh]

Shortened the starboard inner stay one hole:
New readings:
Outer Port outer 520 starboard outer 470
Inner port 240 inner starboard 200#
Not sure how to adjust outers for any less tension in that I've only shortened the stay one hole. Is there any 1/2 measure I could do?

That sounds like a lot of additional stay tension for a 1/8" shortening of a lower stay. But you can extend the forestay a little at a time, even with load on it, to reduce the shroud tension.

[Tomfoolery]

If it has a furler, you can't measure forestay tension since the foil is in the way. But you don't need to anyway, as the forestay counters the side stays, which are swept back on these boats. Increasing the side stay tension increases the forestay tension, which can't be controlled separately. So you get adequate forestay tension, to keep the jib/genoa luff straight and the mast from pumping.

I don't know which furler it is you have, but the CDI Flexible Furler FFII has a cross pin through the drum extension that, when pulled, allows the drum to be raised to expose the turnbuckle that's hidden inside. If it's the Mac furler, I'm sure someone can give you the procedure to access the turnbuckle.

And what did you mean by "Shortened the starboard inner stay one hole"? Those are vernier adjusters, and tightening by the next nearest hole pair results in a 1/8" reduction in stay length. Unless the last hole in the male section was pinned to the last hole in the female, like mine were, which resulted in the mast not having enough rake. But that's a different topic.

[paul I]

I used these for my : lower stays at 35 (270 lbs) and upper stays at 39-40 (330-350 lbs)using loos gauge. It's very important that opposite sides be equal tension.
Yes, use the mast raising system (mrs) to ease the tension.
And remember to grease the bottom rotation washers.

my Loos instructions for a PT-1 using 5/32 cable gives 35= 480 lbs, 39-40 = 700-800 lbs. See the attached: http://loosnaples.com/how-to-use-pt-ser ... ion-gauges

Did they change the scale at some point?

My gauge is a Model A - Loos part number 91. Refer to the pounds of tension rather than my number on the model A.

I purchased my gauge about 5 years ago.

Well that explains it....

[paul I]

Hugh,

Just to clarify, when you tighten one of those adjusters and you move the male part across the female part, "one hole" means the next pair of holes that line up. That pair is not going to be where the pin originally was. It will likely be a hole or two above or below that spot. The holes may not be evenly spaced. Its made so that as you open or close the adjuster a new pair of holes gets aligned at every 1/8".