My boats always slip slidding away....

[Tomfoolery]

Well, I sit behind a machine with AutoCAD and solid modeling software on it, though I don't do as much these days as I used to, so when you're handiest tool is a hammer, every problem tends to look like a nail. Or, in other words, graphical solutions using CAD have ruined my analytical math skills.

[Steve K]

Had this problem with both my Macs (X and D).
The winch angle is all wrong in the factory installed position. It pulls down on the bow and the harder you crank, the harder it pulls down, instead of forward into the bow block.
Move the winch to the top of the winch tree, (I've seen several examples of this being done)
Also, get a can of "Liquid Rollers" and spray your bunk carpet with it (helps if carpet is nice and clean first).
I use a can every one to two years. It is found at many boating web sites and WM stores.

Note: Once the winch is moved to the top of the tree, you can crank the boat up tight to the bow block. You will also need to run a ratchet strap through the bow eye and down around the trailer. This will hold the bow down in the bow block so it doesn't bounce on the road. I have a giant turnbuckle on mine that runs from the bottom of the winch tree up to the bow eye. This works great I just tighten the winch and pin the turnbuckle into the bow eye and tighten it (only takes a couple turns, once you've set it initially). Then all you do is tighten the lock nuts on the turnbuckle.

No more "Mac bump" required and the boat is very secure on the trailer.

One point........
Not only does the angle of a given boat ramp effect where the boat ends up on the trailer, but also, these trailers flex a bit. When you pull the boat out of the water, the extra weight of the ballast causes the trailer to flex a little more, When the ballast is then emptied there is less weight and thus less flex in the trailer rails, which will move the bow block slightly away from the bow. Not with the winch on top though, 'cause you can crank the boat up tighter with the winch, before you put all the boat's weight on the trailer.

In a few cases, I did need to crank the bow up a little, after on flat ground and with ballast emptied (not often though). But with the lifting angle of the top mounted winch, combined with the super slippery "Liquid Rollers" this is easy with the trailer on flat ground.

One more important point..........
When using "Liquid Rollers" on your trailer bunks, ALWAYS have your boat attached to the trailer when backing down a ramp, or pulling the boat back up the ramp. I generally loosen my winch strap a foot or two before launching and I have had the empty boat slide back some, when backing down the ramp (not when I had bottom paint on the boats, but only when they were smooth Gelcoat). And don't get the "Liquid Rollers" on anything you might walk on (particularly when wet), like deck surfaces or ladders.

Getting a little long perhaps but..............
I usually launch and recover my boat by hand and never use the motor. I can pull the boat up onto the trailer by hand easily, or let her off the trailer also. I've done this with all my trailer sailors.
All you need to do is tie your dock lines (fore and aft) together on the dock side of the boat. Use a knot that easily comes apart. This makes it easy to launch and guide the boat on/off the trailer. When coming off the trailer, let her float back, then untie the fore and aft dock lines and cleat the forward one, while holding onto the aft one. Then you can take the aft one back and catch a cleat with it. Easy peasy, no worries, plenty of control, even in moderate breezes. You learn a lot of little tricks like this, when handling the boat alone often.

Best Breezes,
Steve K.

[mastreb]

Second Steve K's method of moving the boat onto the trailer manually vs. under power. It's difficult to align the boat and trailer in any kind of current or wind, and walking it on works a lot better.

I removed (by accident) the starboard-side trailer goal-post and have not replaced it because getting the boat on and off the trailer at the ramp is MUCH easier without it. We just put the trailer in alongside the ramp dock, and then use a single 50' line going bow to stern to walk the boat onto the trailer. If there's a current or wind, I'll use the boat hook to position the bow into the trailer V as I'm pulling it on.

Works great every time, with complete control, and only takes a few minutes.

[topcat0399]

I'm going to get me some of that there liquid rollers - at our regular ramp I always have to muscle the thing off.

I swear we are the only boat that uses our usual ramp that hand loads. Everyone else, no matter the size, power loads.

[Tomfoolery]

I'm going to get me some of that there liquid rollers - at our regular ramp I always have to muscle the thing off.

Can't back it in further? I remove the safety chain and slacken the winch line a couple of feet, then back it in until it just floats off. Sometimes the SUV's back tires are in the water a little, but most times not. Depends on ramp steepness, of course.

[topcat0399]

No way. The boat never floats off the trailer.

Its a rustic launch, one lane steep down to the ramp then levels off
in shallow water with the big power loader submerged pit at the end.

The last time I tried to go deeper, ended up off the end of the ramp
and had to hook a tow vehicle to the truck to help yank it up out of there.
Its fun but that's a little too much adventure. Heaving it off is simpler.

I plan to put a catwalk on the trailer so I can walk out as I heave
and not be doing that strange extended feet on the truck tailgate - hands on
the bow shoving off to the amusement of the aluminum fishermen.
Especially when it gives suddenly....

Kind of like when you have your Labrador in the front seat of your truck with you,
they are never ready for the turns.

[Boblee]

Interesting replies and explains why our boat only slips back 2'' even on our very steep ramps, our winch pulls from a higher position and our traler has webbing which definitely takes some of the flexing out, also I replaced the crossbar that sits under the dagger board with a channel section (same as rest of trailer) to stop the side rails twisting under load.
I use lanolin grease on the bottom of the boat and smear it liberally on the bunks but it can be slightly hard depending on weather and conditions, liguid rollers could be an added idea especially when retrieving in tropical waters (excessive growth).
Still end up with the boat trying to "burrow" into the centre of the two front bunks so put a roller just prior to them.
IMHO with a standard winch support trying to pull the boat up without at least helping with a bump you could end up bending the support back, it could be wise to mark where your boat sits on the bunks when you think it is in a perfect travel position so that you know it is sitting square and in the optimum position before tightening down any straps completely.
Getting the boat "square" or level on the trailer really needs to be done while it has some float, we found it impossible later when retrieving from out of level ramps and especially with strong tidal currents unless it was done on the water and/or with the help of the tide working against the side slope of the ramp.
Obviously you mob in the states have better ramps than most we use or at least what I find only ever had two where the ramp was beside a jetty and a couple with pontoons but they are the exception, most are steep and rough with plenty of rocks or logs, walking on would be a dream but most only if you get in the water and thats not going to happen.

[Steve K]

If you launch at a very shallow ramp (and it's long enough), you can make an extension very easily. I made one that is three feet long, when the lake I sail most was getting very low. I've only tried it out and never ended up using it to launch the boat. (carry it with me though)
It is just a length of 2" square tubing that has a trailer ball on one end and is drilled for the receiver pin on the other. If needed, I can just uncouple the trailer, remove the hitch and stick the three footer in and recouple the trailer to it.

My Catalina 22 swing keel had a ten foot trailer extension (part of the factory trailer). It's a pain.

If you make one of these, make sure your receiver can take the extra leverage that an extension will put on it. I don't think I'd use one that was over three or maybe four feet long, but even a short extension like this can make a ton of difference.
Another thought..........
I started out with a zero drop hitch. The one I have now is a two or three inch drop. This small difference made launch and recovery easier. It just puts the trailer at a little better angle at the ramp. This may increase the tongue weight slightly, but this just helps the boat/trailer track better on the highway.

A lot of my sailing buddies have trailer boats that have, at least, some keel hanging down under their boats. Some of them have ten foot extensions (part of the trailer) to get the thing deep enough to get the boat off/on. Others rope launch theirs. Some extensions require a dolly wheel mounted at the front of the trailer and you must have one when strap launching.
When strap launching (or rope launching.... or chain/cable launching) you back the boat down the ramp to water's edge and lined up to launch. Lower the dolly wheel, chock the trailer wheels and uncouple the trailer. Then a long strap, rope, cable is attached to the trailer and the tow vehicle. The vehicle is pulled forward until the strap is tight and the chocks are removed from the trailer. Then the whole mess is backed down the ramp until the boat floats.
This takes a couple people minimum and if your ramp is busy, you may get a few complaints, 'cause it takes awhile. And short ramps are a big problem.
Glad our boats launch almost as easy as a canoe.

Anyway, just thought I'd share this for ideas sake...

Best Breezes,
Steve K.

[Boblee]

My favourite saying is you can launch them as easy as a dinghy and have proved it many many times in some of the most unlikely places.

[kurz]

It is just a length of 2" square tubing that has a trailer ball on one end and is drilled for the receiver pin on the other. If needed, I can just uncouple the trailer, remove the hitch and stick the three footer in and recouple the trailer to it.

What's the reason for a tub? I mean if you cannot go down enough, just take a rop, let the trailer go down 1 meter with the handbrake of the trailer if you have or by car, that's it.

Handling with a tube makes for me not to much sense actually!

[Steve K]

What's the reason for a tub? I mean if you cannot go down enough, just take a rop, let the trailer go down 1 meter with the handbrake of the trailer if you have or by car, that's it.

Handling with a tube makes for me not to much sense actually!

It is mainly user preference.

The tube extension can be installed some place other than the ramp itself and one doesn't need to use a dolly wheel at the front of the trailer. Many of the ramps I use have a lot of impatient people waiting to launch and recover and the least time taken there the better.

What you mention is same as rope launching I mentioned with a shorter rope, which is not a problem. However, I do feel if you only need three of four feet, a short extension gives better control and you will spend less time at the ramp.
JMHO

You have hand brake on your trailer interesting. (or am I misunderstanding)

In any case, I only point out that there is more than one way to accomplish the same thing. (also jmho)

Best Breezes,
Steve K.

[yukonbob]

Pardon my language, but f**k everyone else at the ramp. I'm there and it's my turn, and I'm taking as much time as I need to do it right. If you rush somehting will go wrong and it'll take even more time. If you're that impatient grab a rope and give me a hand, I'd do the same for them. That being said I do make sure I have everything ready to go. Back in, slide off trailer, tie up, start motor, drive truck and trailer out, go back to a warm engine and move boat, done. Anything else can be done at a slip or dock ect.

[Tony E]

Wow sounds like you've had some bad experiences at the boat ramp Bob but that's okay I'll start another forum for that. I'll title it the "boat ramp support group." lol That one could probably go on for ever and ever and ever... K so this summer I am going to try the pull it out a bit and then crank it up a bit (times 3) and look at moving my crank up higher if possible. I already changed my rope to a strap and that did not do anything and I can't do anything about the ramp. Usually I just put the trailer in just far enough to cover up the fenders and that is usually more than enough to pull the boat on so if I always constantly had it only in the water that far doesn't that make a difference?

[DaveC426913]

I've never heard of the Mac bump before now. I have never concerned myself with whether the prow is in the V.

I just use a ratchet strap across the bow, aft of the pulpit stanchions (gotta put one across the stern anyway, and they come in pairs). That D ring takes enough tension without me relying on it while trailering. I use it only to ensure the boat doesn't slide backwards.

[topcat0399]

I've never heard of the Mac bump before now. I have never concerned myself with whether the prow is in the V.

I just use a ratchet strap across the bow, aft of the pulpit stanchions (gotta put one across the stern anyway, and they come in pairs). That D ring takes enough tension without me relying on it while trailering. I use it only to ensure the boat doesn't slide backwards.

Once we learned the bump we use it regularly; pretty much have to.
Works better on asphalt as opposed to gravel.