Hank-on Jib Management

[Currie]

Hello all,

My '04 M has a hank-on jib that came with the purchase. I was thinking I wanted roller-furling - I liked it on my old Chrysler daysailer - but I like the hank-on so far, on this boat. It's easy to handle when it comes time to trailer her.

For some reason, I woke up last night at 3 AM thinking about flaking the jib (or at least holding it in place ) while dousing it from the cockpit. Even more-so, I'd like to leave it alone after dousing and have it be fairly secure. I like the Dutchman system for dealing with the main, but I need something for the jib (which has no boom to flake down to). The boat is rigged with a downhaul, which is very handy for running the jib up and down to try and get it to behave, but it's all just not quite there.

I couldn't get back to sleep until I came up with this...I think it would be kinda cool....

Instead of shackling the downhaul to the head of the jib, run it thru fairlead eyes that weave their way down the leech, finally terminating it at the clew with the jib sheets....



I still only have the two controls - halyard and downhaul - but the final resting position with downhaul and both jib-sheets tensioned looks like this...



Granted - I have it flaked in the pic. The sail wouldn't be so neat until you mess with it - but it would be held in place much more securley than without my quasi-Dutchman rig. When I'm back to port, I'll flake it and maybe just cover it with a small main-type sail-cover - in the same position shown above.

Any reason this wouldn't work? It's a pretty simple system. Anyone have any other rigs they like? I don't think it would present any problem with sailing performance since the leech contributes the least to the jib's sailpower.

Thoughts?

~Bob

[Bawgy]

I just bought a jib bag form Comboat on Ebay . I plan on stuffing it in thier once it is down .

Too much work for me but on the leading edge of the sail you could sew a hinged plastic strip that would force the sail outward between each grommet . Dont know how you would do the leech but it should work in theory for the Luff

[Currie]

Too much work for me but on the leading edge of the sail you could sew a hinged plastic strip that would force the sail outward between each grommet . Dont know how you would do the leech but it should work in theory for the Luff

Hehe, that would be cool Bawgy - having it flake right down. Add that to this and it might flake and secure in one motion...very cool - probably too much work for me too though. For now I'd be happy just getting it secured from the cockpit, without the leech flopping all over the deck and scraping against everything in sight.

~Bob

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

Center the jib with your sheets, but not real tight.
Un-dog the jib halyard.
Pull the jib down-haul.
When the jib is down, pull the down-haul line tight, thru the clutch, while dogged.
Pull the sheets tight thru your EZ Cleats.
Take the slack out of your halyard thru the dogged clutch.

[Currie]

Hi Bill,

Yep. That's how I use the downhaul. However, I'm looking to better secure the entire jib from the cockpit - like when sailing singlehanded. If the jib is rigged with a standard downhaul, only the luff and foot are secured - the leech is loose (and more than twice as long as the foot) - so it's easy to get this -



OK - so I staged this at the marina, but it doesn't take much to make it happen. The downhaul and sheets have fully secured the luff and foot of the sail in the pic.

So that's where I'm headed with the above mod.

~Bob

[Catigale]

Looks like my boat - whats wrong with that Bob??

[Currie]

Looks like my boat - whats wrong with that Bob??

Hehe - Well - maybe I'm a roller-furling guy then?

[Frank C]

Looks like a great idea, Bob, except for all those holes in the leech! I'd also wonder if the longer rig might interfere with a smooth hoist? Pretty easy to implement a test though.

Get a package of those plastic DIY grommets and insert two of them inside the leech hem. They actually cut the hole as you hammer them home ... some do, anyway. With only 2 (or 3?) equi-spaced grommets you could test the theory before going whole-hog.

Fortunately you're not risking big-bucks by experimenting w/the factory jib.
Look up Minney's Yacht Surplus to find a replacement for maybe $200.

[Currie]

Fortunately you're not risking big-bucks by experimenting w/the factory jib.Look up Minney's Yacht Surplus to find a replacement for maybe $200.

Exactly what I was thinking Frank I was just searching the internet for some pressed rings or similar such - couldn't find squat. I'll look into your suggestion. Thanks!

[Frank C]

I was thinking of those plastic grommets that permit adapting cheap plastic tarps. Look in any big-box or autoparts store. I think HmDepot and Walmart carry them ... about $3 for a package of ten grommets.

[Currie]

Along the same lines - anyone ever attempted a poor-man's Dutchman mod on a factory main? Lazy jacks are a nice alternative I guess - and common. But I am interested in the Dutchman system. It's just hard to justify the expense - (roughly the same price as the mainsail itself? )

On edit - it doesn't appear that it costs as much as a new main - but still - it aint cheap

[bscott]

Go to www.sailcare.com They have a similar system to a lazy jack called the Sail Cradle for $125.00

[Currie]

Bit the bullet and just did it. I tested it out at the marina today (in the slip)...so far, I totally love it. Here's the skinny....

I made few adjustments to the original plan: Instead of running the line through the leech, I ran it along a curve that sweeps away fromt the leech at the midsection. I thought that having a line right at the leech might induce flapping (Frank alluding to the same, perhaps?). I read that imaginary lines of equal stress in a sail follow catenary shaped curves. I had a hunch that following one of these lines had the least chance of warping the aerfoil shape. The catenary is the shape of a loosely strung horizontal line or chain, so it was easy to scribe the curve with the jib stretched across my basement. The downhaul grommets are set on intersecting lines perpendicular to the luff, at the hank points...



For the grommets, I used some dacron repair tape (on both sides) then rings of soft rubbery plastic (cut from a carpet protector mat), then a brass grommet. If the hardware store brass ones give me trouble I'll replace them with SS. Also, this winter I'll hand sew the edges of the tape...



Here's a quick pic of the hand-flaked sail showing the downhaul line...



From here, it folds up very quickly because every flake in the sail is clinging to the center-strung line.

I ran some tests at the marina. First the boat was running square (tied up of course). I was really happy that the sail doused quickly and actaully flaked! (considering the wind direction). I moved the boat to an about-facing slip and tried it into the wind. The jib douses more quickly (IMO) because of the second line guiding it - no binding to speak of - same with hoisting it. Although I'm dealing with a potentially misbehaving sail (with no flaked "memory"), everything seemed to be forced into pretty much the right position. Here's a pic of the doused sail untouched...



After about six quick tugs it looked almost like it did on my basement floor. I freed the sheets, grabbed the clew and folded twice and tucked. Everything held together...



I'm also happy, so far, with the sail shape (or lack of effect on sail shape)...





Finally, I timed myself getting the sail from flying to flaked, folded and bag-ready. All three attempts were about the same - 40 seconds. Not bad, if I may say. Plus it's easy to sail with it just doused and threaded on the downhaul, without ever leaving the cockpit.

I have a bunch more pictures of the rigging, but I think I'm past my recommended number now. I'll post it in the mods section. This was a very fun and rewarding project.

~Cheers,
~Bob

[johnnyonspot]

Wow, that looks very slick indeed. I have a hank on standard jib on my Mac 25 and single-hand often. When dropping sails I heave-to, drop the main, then let the jib halyard clutch go and run up to the bow, sit down, gather in the job and stuff it under a shock cord I have stretched across the bow hooked to the bases of the aft pulpit stanchions. This holds the sail great, but it would better if I could simply raise the jib (which I currently do from the cockpit) and lower it without having to ever leave the cockpit. I assume this would do that, no? How many blocks are used in this mod? Looks like two, no? Where exactly are they placed? I've got numerous leftover SS grommets from my slug job, which did not require any.

[Currie]

Hi JOS,

Yeah it's meant to go up and down from the cockpit and stay secured without having to run up front (until you're ready to pack it).

I used two extra blocks as you said....



and



Note: I used some crappy dime-store quality blocks for the prototype - and there just fastened with small loops of line. I'll get some decent ones for next season. Rings could also work - I have no issues with drag using 3/16" nylon braid.

Also, I made a couple of mistakes, although not big ones.

First, I put two grommets in along the foot, and tried to run the line around the clew all the way to the tack. This doesn't work - no matter how much you try to loosen the line when flying the jib, it messes up the shape of the foot something terrible. I ended up just running it through a ring at the clew, then thru the first grommet in the foot of the sail ending it there with a stopknot. This still pulls the foot around in the right direction at least, when you haul it down.

Second - I scribed the catenary line from the head ring to the clew ring - I should have used the topmost hank instead of the head of the sail. The head isn't fastened to the forestay - along the line that it pulls tightly against when doused. This messes things up when you tighen the doused sail. I ended up just moving the top downhaul block down to the first hank below. The screw up doesn't seem to affect much, while sailing.

Sadly, my boat is now out of its slip and back in the driveway. I'll try to run some more tests there if we get some decent weather. I think I'm planning on running the same rigging on the main - instead of a homemade Dutchman. Same concept, although the intersecting lines will look a little different. I'll let you know how it goes

Cheers,
~Bob