The boat on its side in the Solent

[Wind Chime]

Questions for the Engineers.

Assuming; Under Power, No Ballast, Average Load, 2 Persons in the Cockpit.

1. What is the degree of heel before the boat will go over?
2. If she does go over, will she really just lay there on her side like a dead goat?

[kmclemore]

Moe, I do think this is a MacX... I don't know of any clones that look that close in terms of design.

Also, as to the boat that's holed at the dock - we don't know much about it, but surmising... the hole may have occurred not only in the boat, but also in the ballast, so that both the boat *and* the ballast became waterlogged. In which case, yes, it will sink considerably lower in the water. Further, we don't know if that boat has additional options (batteries, water tanks, equipment, etc.) or if it has any of it's styrofoam removed - many folks remove foam to install batteries, water tanks and other items under the v-berth, and this may account for the especially low riding of this boat at the dock.

However, even in the case of the one at the dock, it still hasn't truly sunk, I don't believe, has it?

[SkiDeep2001]

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208811 Rob

[Russ]

From that link...

The man in the picture in the original post is my dad. I agree that conditions were probably outside the safe limits for the boat he was in, but then conditions do change when you are on the water, and he was motoring out from fishbourne creek when conditions started to change. The reason it was knocked over is that his dingy was blown from the deck and caught in the rigging. The centreboard was down and the ballast was empty, as directed for motoring close to shore in the guidance. He wasnt under sail and the sudden gust that caught the dingy broke the securing rope. All in all I would say he was more unlucky than stupid, but that would be my opinion. The boat itself was towed onto a sandbank and was bailed and righted by filling the ballast, without any further drama.

and

We were actually in Wooton Creek when he went over- only boat that made our club rally, cos we went on Thursday!
Basic facts are;
Yep, no ballast plug out- local bloke from Wooton- only took it out to test the engine, as selling it.
The Ryde and Cowes IRBs took over the towing clear of the ferry channel by the RVYC chugger and had great fun most of that evening, righting it n pumping it out on the spit off Quarr Priory. RVYC towed it back in next hw. Mast and rigging looked like a pretzel!
The "funny" (as in sad, rather than amusing) part is that as he was going to sell it, we were told he'd cancelled the insurance just previous.


--Russ

[kmclemore]

Odd that the board is up in the photos... I wonder if it swung up when he rolled? Surely he didn't pull it up afterwards!

[Cheryl McChesney]

While it is always sad to see something like this happen it is comforting to also see that the boat is floating, and the person is safe. The boat did what it was supposed to do. I did sail one over once, yes sail without ballast, and the boat will float just like this picture. We were able to right the boat by standing on the centerboard, just like a very big dinghy. The 26X should have its ballast in when motoring in rough conditions as it is clear that this boat was doing. You also should always sail with the ballast in, no exceptions! When you sail with 1/2 ballast you will end up with anti-ballast meaning that the water goes to the low side. It would be like moving all your passengers to the low side when sailing. The 26M has 300 lbs of permant ballast so that if you are motoring without the ballast it is still self righting, and yes I tested that too! Stayed upright that time.

[Retcoastie]

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208811 Rob

Boy, a lot of folks on that board did not like Macs. Wonder how many of them actually went out on one?

[Mistral]

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208811 Rob



Boy, a lot of folks on that board did not like Macs. Wonder how many of them actually went out on one?

NONE

[RocketsCrew]

boy, I've never read so much blather from un educated non mac owners in my life as I have at YBW.com. I thought Sailing Anarchy was bad. There were some rational posts but not one pointed out the fact that if this had been a conventional boat that had some bad luck in the Solent, the picture would have been of the unfortunate person floating in the Solent with no boat, as there would have been a good chance it would have been at the bottom! I think the guy is lucky that he was on a Mac no matter what the circumstances were.

[bubba]

I still think it is a flat bottom home built, the photo shows a very flat bow chine that is difficult to mold with any strength. Not a Mac at all. Just painted with big stripes to look as handsome as a Mac.

[ALX357]

With no ballast, and a dinghy caught in the rigging catching wind like a sail, it is not surprising that the boat went over.
Just standing on the mast there with the boat on its side could possibly prevent self-righting, IMHO.

Mac X hulls do not have the hard chine all the way forward to the bow to the extent this boat appears to have. The appearance of the bottom of this boat is a bit confusing, but I think the dark gray is the bottom paint, and the black is the actual under-the-waterline area, the line between the black and gray not being a shadow line of chine. Seen this way, it looks alot more like a Mac X, and the centerboard trunk does not appear so far forward and close to the bow. I agree that the second cavity, the one behind the centerboard trunk, is the early X hull's mid-hull fill valve notch.

It is my observation that the condition of partially filled ballast would not positively "keep" the boat on its side, but that it could not help right the boat. If the boat was forced upright, by standing on the centerboard, having a tow boat pull a line from the high side, or hoisting the mast from another boat or bridge etc. , then the partial ballast would not fight the process, but adjust with the boats attitude.
Partial ballast is not malicious, just ineffective - you have no effective ballast unless water is "trapped" in the horizontal ballast tube on the HIGH side, (either way you heel the boat) - which requires the ballast tank full, to keep it there.
If you have a passive open forward ballast vent mod, make sure the boat being on its side for a few minutes would not let the ballast escape. That's why I installed a secure open/close ball valve in the vent hose, to be able to positively trap the ballast in severe conditions or in case of a knock-down, or possible one.

[Steve]

that's pretty amazing. I surely wouldn't have left my Mac either. Why not find a few other sailors to put some weight on the centerboard or as someone else stated, get a line to the mast and pull er up! That Mac looks like it barely has water in it.

[SkiDeep2001]

Not sure about this but in the blown up pic, is the skip of the capsized Mac not wearing a PFD? It looks like the light colored strips running down his sleeves and across his chest are just part of his jacket. And that looks a lot like the bottom of my , only mines much cleaner. Rob

[hartflat]

Looks like empty ballast tanks with lunch, cooler, beer, sleeping bag, head & other gear serving as keel weight on the starboard side.

[Phillip]

I am no expert, but I have have close encounters with over 6 X's in the past year (cleaning/sanding/painting their hulls) and not one of them had a bottom hull shape like that one....maybe it is the camera angle.....something just does not gel with this....but then again I could be wrong.
Cheers
Phillip

Hang on....I just found this picture I filed away a few years back (for ideas and solutions if I ever needed them), so yes, the X is flatter when it is on its side (he! he!)
What do you guys think....one of the same?
Cheers
Phillip