I got C/B problems

[MadMacX]

When I went to retrieve my boat from my marina I noticed that the centerboard cable was not tight on top of the cabin, so I pulled on it only to find out that it was no longer attached to the C/B. No problem, right? I'll fix it when I get home. Well when I got home and looked to see what might have happened, I was unpleasantly surprised at what I found. Yes, I lost the cable connection, but I was not prepared for what i found next.

As you can see from the attached photos, my C/B is a complete mess!! I now have some work to do. I will need to build up the opening and repair the upper edges, but I don't know where the hole is supposed to be. Does anyone have a drawing or measurements that they can post? Also, what is the "proper" way to make this repair, ie; fiberglass, epoxy, etc? The brass spacer, that I guess goes in the hole, also needs to be replaced. I think I also need some additional hardware to properly reinstall the C/B. The leading edge has quite a few dings that should also be repaired (can't post photo due to site limitations). It looks like I need to completely rebuild my C/B.

Guys, I am open to any and all suggestions. My feeling is that the C/B has been this way for quite some time as it has always made a banging noise and the only time I lowered it completely, my boat would hardly sail.





Thanks in advance.

Pat

[Hamin' X]

A Brand new centerboard from Blue Water Yachts, is only $233 and the hardware package is $35. Unless you are real hep on the do-it-yourself approach, I would suggest that you call them.

~Rich

[Rick Westlake]

I'm with Rich on this one - and I've had a good share of centerboard problems on Bossa Nova this summer. By no means were my problems anywhere near as bad as the "missing chunk" where you should have a centerboard pivot! Just replace the poor thing and be done with it.

That rather-inexpensive piece of fiberglass is critical to good sailing - or to what we Mac'ers regard as "good sailing". In fact, I can attest that a centerboard problem goes beyond sailing - after being awakened by a banging centerboard July 3rd, when my centerboard cable snapped at anchor! I thought my neighbor's anchor had dragged and he was banging into Bossa Nova with the swell ....

The damage you show in your photos COULD be repaired by someone who was very good with fiberglass. But if I had had such damage to my centerboard, I'd be on the phone to Blue Water Yachts the moment I dropped that board. They are good people and they'll take care of you. (I "just wish" they might offer a centerboard hanger with an extra-long bolt, so one could "un-bolt" the board far enough to remove the pin without dropping the wishbone clear out of the trunk! If they do, please notify me because I would buy it in a heartbeat!)

By the way - before you install that new centerboard: If you have a steel-cable pendant, prepare to replace it with an all-line pendant. Twenty feet of 5/16 Sta-Set may be more than enough, but it's certainly enough. I thought the stainless-steeel cable was better when I replaced mine in July, but three months in the waters near Annapolis left my brand-new cable with enough "meathooks" in the lower eye-splice that I just replaced it with a StaSet pendant. You will need to enlarge and smooth-out the hole in the fiberglass where it goes into the compression post - both top and bottom - it's not hard with a Dremel tool when the line is out, but I can attest that it's a devil of a job if you wait till you thread through the line, then find out it's binding and try to do something about it!

A Brand new centerboard from Blue Water Yachts, is only $233 and the hardware package is $35. Unless you are real hep on the do-it-yourself approach, I would suggest that you call them.

~Rich

[Don T]

Hello,
Parts of that look right but then................
There was no bushing brass or otherwise that came OEM AFAIK.
It looks like an early board that came hollow. Later boards were pretty solid around the pivot hole.
That pin is not OEM either. On my boat it's a straight piece of stainless rod with no head, retaining pin or hole. It is held in place by the hull / CB trunk.

It is also missing the upper stop chunk (ear). On the leading edge at the very top should be a built up area that stops the board from swinging too far forward. It's the part of the board that hits the welded stop pin in the hangar bracket. This too will have to be repaired / built up and strong. Petty good reason why it doesn't sail well when "all the way down." The CB is supposed to be raked aft just like the mast. (see sales literature / line drawings).

You can figure where the hole goes by positioning the hangar bracket. It should rotate with the upper stop pin just clearing the edge of the CB. Adjust the pivot location until that stop pin stays the same distance from the edge of the CB (I hope that's clear enough). It's a matter of the geometry, if you measure the hangar bracket you can trianglate the position on the board. Basically you will be filling the entire area with built up fiberglass and drilling the hole afterwards. That's how I see it anyway. The hole has to be big enough to allow the board to rest against the top and bottom of the trunk when fully down sort of wedged there by the load of the water when sailing. The bracket is not designed to take lateral loads, that's the trunk's job.

On edit: EAR - great name for it!

[Hamin' X]

If it were mine, I would get the new board and use it to make a template to repair the damaged one. Install the new one and work on the damaged one at my leisure. I would gain experience with fiberglass repair and have a spare board.

~Rich

[opie]

There has been previous discussion of CB repair, but I do not think that included the "ear" on the end. I do not know what strength that ear may need. The hole repair would be simple. The pic below is my board after repair. My ear was cracked and the hole was enlarged.

[ALX357]

Two recent threads with lots of discussion and some photos.

http://macgregorsailors.com/forum/viewt ... =9&t=14155

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... =8&t=14178

[MadMacX]

Thanks guys for all the responses. I'm still in the fence about what I am going to do about this mess, right now it is in my workshop drying out. I have experience in working with fiberglass, carbon fiber and fillers, but that has all been on the automotive side, so this could be just another of my winter "learning" projects......OTOH, I like Rich's idea, just replace it and move on. However, shipping that monstrous board cross country will probably cost about as much as the C/B. Hmmmmm........

Regards,
Pat

[ALX357]

I noticed a bronze sleeve in your photo ... not original installation, plus the board looks alarmingly hollow around that area. In 2000 the factory board came new with just an oversized hole, reinforced with resin all around the hole, so the part of the board there was solid. The entire upper part of the board that is thicker and not tapered, and stays up in the trunk, needs to be solid. Most of the problems and damage related to the hanger pin hole in the board are from being modified and made too tight a fit to the pin.

[opie]

At least with my 1999 CB, I must disagree with the statement about the CB needing to be solid up in the trunk. Mine is hollow and filled with spongy material. The CB (as well as the rudders) are hollow so that they can fill with water and sink.
One big problem I see in Mad's original pics is that the pin seems to be hollow and perhaps has a dissimilar metal cap on each end. Mine is solid stainless and I think it must be solid to work best.

I spoke to the factory two years ago before I started my repair and they told me the spongy material was a filler used during the layup fiberglass process. It can remain or be removed, no issue either way.

Again, the hole can be filled with epoxy and drilled for the SOLID pin, but the "ear" will take some skill to get strong and correctly shaped.

And, for sure, I agree that the pin and the hole can not be "tight" but must flex as the CB must be able to swing from side to side of the trunk to "lock" into place when sailing. Breaking the board may be troublesome but a rigid pin could possibly? break the trunk with bad results? Some other posts here show a solid SS thru-bolted ring setup on the CB with a tight pin. I do not think that is wise. Let it flop around a bit in the pin hole. Some have used a PVC sleeve and I used a rubber hose piece, but a correct diameter hole, with extra space around the pin, in fresh epoxy would work as well.


Above shows some sponge removed from pin hole.

[MadMacX]

OK, I think I'm going to attempt the repair. Alx357 and opie, the info you provided is just what i was looking for. I'll order new hardware from BWY, and make the repair with epoxy resin, fiberglass and epoxy filler. First I'll repair the hole and make a solid area for the pin. Then I'll drill the hole for the pin, but I'll oversize the hole so there is some movement allowed. I do like the idea of using rubber hose to "cushion" the pin.

As far as the "stop" is concerned, I think I can make a template and use fiberglass and epoxy filler to make it a solid piece. I believe that I can embed a Delron rod in the area where the stop is and build up around the rod. Any of the other nicks and dings should be able to be repaired with just the epoxy filler.

It never entered my mind that the board must be able to fill with water. I'm glad you pointed that out, as I probably would have closed up all the holes and would have defeated the proper use of the C/B.

Well, I'm off to We$t Marine to get started.

Thanks,
Pat

[opie]

Give us a pic or two along the way as you finish.

Here is my rubber hose method for the pivot pin....

[ALX357]

Opie, you may notice I said the board would be best filled solid in the area that stays in the trunk. That would be mostly above the waterline, the part that is full width and bearing aginst the trunk walls when the board is fully down, and does not prevent the rest of the hollow board from filling and dropping normally.
The pin in the first photo looks like the regular solid stainless steel. - It does seem to have a bushing or maybe a cap around the one end, outside of the hangar, but the pin looks normal to me.

[MadMacX]

The pin in the first photo looks like the regular solid stainless steel. - It does seem to have a bushing or maybe a cap around the one end, outside of the hangar, but the pin looks normal to me.

Yes, I believe the pin is the correct one. It is a solid SS pin, but what looks like a cap, is actually a piece of clear hose, there was one on each end when I pulled the C/B out. I'm not really sure what the PO was thinking with the hose. Maybe he thought that the pin would fall out or maybe he had an interference problem with the trunk. There has been many head scratchers with this boat. That's just one more.

Pat

[ALX357]

I think the idea of the hose section slipped over the end of the pin was for a cushion to keep the pin from gouging up the fiberglass channel it is contained by on each end. It may have been a mistaken remedy for problem that will not happen if the pin is not tight in the board's hole. If the pin is a loose fit iin the board, the board will not cause the pin ( and hangar ) to move against the fiberglass, while the fit of the board in the trunk is the limiting factor on movement, and the pin is only for a retention and pivot point. But a tight fit will cause twisting of the pin and hangar, and alot of gouging of the fiberglass. Which is probably why the hose bushing was put on.
Most likely the P.O. (one of the P.O.s) put a bushing on each end of the pin. If the fit was tight and the pin was twisting, the rubber bushing would eventually get eaten up, or worn thru and split, then fall off, or get ground up, and next the fiberglass as well, but if the pin is properly loose in the board, it would not hurt anything to have the bushings in place, outside the hangar.