How much heel is too much?

[vatalon]

Had a chance to take the boat out this week single-handed since the weather has been unseasonable warm lately. Winds were about 8kts and I was on a broad reach. As soon as I deployed the 150% Genoa the bow dug in and when I reached 20 degrees heel I chickened out. Did I give up too early or could I be doing something wrong? The ballest was full. Spent the rest of the day tooling around under the main and had a good time.

[mgg4]

The boat will have better perfromance if you keep it more upright. I usually try to maintain 15-20 deg of heel. According to my Mac dealer, the optimal heel angle is 15 deg. More than 20 starts getting uncomfortable. I've had it over to about 35 a couple of times and it feels like it's on it's side.

My boat is rigged nearly to factory specs, so when it gets to about 30-35 deg it starts to round up. Some on this board don't like that, as they prefer to sail on the ragged edge. Myself, I like this safety feature, and treat it as a not-too-subtle reminder that I probably should have reefed the sails before then.

--
Mark

[Jim]

I've had mine over 35 a few times and besides being uncomfortable, I think its too hard on the rigging and it does tend to round up anyway. I read on here sometime that 12-15 is about right.I know a few people that like to have the water in the cockpit with them, but a bit to much for me.Fia winds from frozen Canada.........Jim

[dclark]

Had a chance to take the boat out this week single-handed since the weather has been unseasonable warm lately. Winds were about 8kts and I was on a broad reach. As soon as I deployed the 150% Genoa the bow dug in and when I reached 20 degrees heel I chickened out. Did I give up too early or could I be doing something wrong? The ballest was full. Spent the rest of the day tooling around under the main and had a good time.

Nothing wrong with 20 degrees, although much more is probably toom uch. So did you give up too early? Yes. although you may have been better to either raise the jib or partially unfurl the genny (don't know what you have) first. But with winds at 8 kts, you should have been okay with the whole 150%. Nothing wrong with an occassional gust to push you towards 30 deg as long as it's not constant.

[Richard O'Brien]

I too chickened out over 20 degrees, thinking all that "reef early and often" advice was for safety. I'm taking dclark's advice, and leaving a little genoa out there, maybe 25%, then let her hang out. I never felt unsafe at 20 degrees. Now I have to wait 3 months, but I've been mentally practicing my tacks. and broadreaches. I'm wondering if It's a good idea to move the genny cars up to the jib tracks for that?

[Richard Lisch]

Just thinking......http://www.maximarine.com/index.html

[vatalon]

Thanks for the comments guys! I just did not feel the boat was performing as it has in the past. I know 8kts is not that high for winds and I'm comfortable with 15 degrees of heel under these conditions. What I have not experienced before, was the sensation of the genny trying to bury the bow and I just did not have that warm and fuzzy feeling you get when the ballast comes into play and the boat feels solid. Will have to get back out there and try it again!

[Miquel]

When reaching, I usually like to let the boat heel to an angle of 20. It's how I've got the best (for me) results. I didn't rig it following the factory specifications, as the boat had too much weather helm. So I tensioned more the forestay (the CDI furler), and got much less weather helm.

My family... this is different. They have got to get used to the heeling. At the beginning, anything going more than 15 was creating almost a mutiny on board. Now, they don't feel anything "special" if we are not heeling at about 35 or more . But then, the efficacy of the boat is no longer good in my experience.

So I would say that you need to get used, and at the same time, try to find when the result in VMG and leeway are optimal. That can change for every sail configuration.

I use also the jib cars when reaching with a reefed genoa to a 100 or less; I find the shape to be better, and the performance also.

Hope this helps. Fair winds,

Miquel.
Culzean.

[delevi]

20 Degrees is no big deal. I often sail in 20+ knots of wind and get past 30 degrees, sometimes to 45, even with a reefed main. I have been caught in a few storms and have had the boat completely on its side. My compass reads as high as 50 degrees, and the line was well past that. I would guess I was close to 90. The boat does pop right back up, though, once you release the sheets and/or boat rounds up. I do sail in 30-35 degree heel without taking in any water in. The perfomance does suffer, but sometimes if the wind is heavy enough, you don't really have a choice. The most important thing is to keep yourself and crew properly braced on the windward side. The boat will be just fine. It's the crew you need worry about.

Leon

[DLT]

I like the idea of the additional side mounted water ballast, especially for the lighter boats...

But, keep in mind that the rigging on our boats is considered rather light... As the boat heels, it reduces the force of the wind on the rigging. Specifically, as the boat heels, it is in effect reducing the effective sail area.

For an example of this, simply put your hand out the window while driving. We've all done this... With the flat of your hand facing the 'wind', your arm wants to come off. With you hand flattened with the 'wind', you barely feel it, comparatively. With your hand in between, at an angle, you feel less force. Granted, that force want to send you hand up or down, but still with less force than your hand directly perpendicular...

I say this because what those side mounted water bags will do is reduce heel, thereby making the sails more vertical, theoretically more perpendicular to the wind, thereby staining the rigging more...