New Glass 2 alternative

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Herschel
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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by Herschel » Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:01 pm

Divecoz wrote:
1st Sail wrote: I'm would like to avoid bottom painting at all costs and have been looking for alternatives.
$10,000.00 Electric Boat Lift .......solution's are few and very far between.. Hull Maintenance? Every Con Man Under The Sun has THE ... Miracle you've been waiting for.. Sorry but that is just the truth.. I too live in Florida , SWF actually and there is well in excess of 500 MILES of salt water canals ( Both sides meaning every bit of a 1000 miles of 100' wide water front lots.. ) connecting to the Gulf and to Tampa Bay and to Charlotte Harbor and a Zillion lakes..that equals Thousands and thousands and thousands of boats sitting in the Sun 365..There is NO Magic Solution..
I always hate it when smart people remind us of the realities of life. Bet you don't believe in Santa Claus either! But, on a more serious level, I think this thread is mostly about "can I keep these boats up properly" and, if not, is there a point when I have to admit that and consider the move to something like an aluminum pontoon boat! At least if I am honest with myself, I think that is the issue. And maybe have a little trailerable sailing dinghy like the Picnic Cat to keep on a trailer under a tarp at home.
https://www.smartmarineguide.com/boats- ... picnic-cat

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by BOAT » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:15 pm

I do not have paint on the bottom - and I know that I will be suffering the maintenance for doing that. Bottom paint IS the only way to keep the bottom clean if the boat is in the water. Over here there was a fad for a while where people put a plastic swimming pool sort of thing under their boats in the slip and poured chemicals into the pool. That did not really work either. If the boat is going to be in the water for more than three weeks at a time (in the ocean) several times a year you will need bottom paint. The only solution I know that really works is a boat lift. My oldest brother has a lake house and several boats and they are all on lifts in a boat house at the property.

I use fleet wax. I use it because I have already resigned myself that I will be re applying my wax every year. The fleet wax works real good and keeps the boat very nice but it only lasts about a year. We usually reapply it after the summer months of boating are over. There might be something that lasts longer but I bet whatever it is requires stripping to re apply it. That's why I stick with the fleet wax. You just wash the boat clean and scrub any spots that are particularly dirty with Collonite Fiberglass cleaner and then put on the Fleet wax. Your done for another year. Sometimes I pay my kid 100 bucks to do it and sometimes I pay a boat cleaning service 175 to 250 to do it depending on how busy I am.

Bottom paint is the only answer if you want to stay away from the maintenance nightmare. When i am too old to maintain the bottom I will either sell the boat or put on bottom paint.

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by Herschel » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:47 pm

Boat said
I use fleet wax. I use it because I have already resigned myself that I will be re applying my wax every year. The fleet wax works real good and keeps the boat very nice but it only lasts about a year. We usually reapply it after the summer months of boating are over. There might be something that lasts longer but I bet whatever it is requires stripping to re apply it. That's why I stick with the fleet wax. You just wash the boat clean and scrub any spots that are particularly dirty with Collonite Fiberglass cleaner and then put on the Fleet wax. Your done for another year. Sometimes I pay my kid 100 bucks to do it and sometimes I pay a boat cleaning service 175 to 250 to do it depending on how busy I am.
I am intrigues about a wax that lasts a year. Tell me more about Fleet wax. Is that a brand or just a type of wax. OBTW, NewglassII is not a bottom application. It is just for topsides, at least that is how I use it. I do have bottom paint because I do keep the boat in the fresh water 365 and the advice I read about said it would help avoid blistering. So far so good. 20 years and counting.

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by BOAT » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:55 am

Fleet Wax has been around forever - Collonite is an old company that started making wax for airplanes during WWII. The Fleet Wax is just Carnuba - really really thick Carnuba. It's so thick you can't let it dry on the surface before you buff it out - you apply it and then you buff it out right there before it dries. It leaves a pretty thick glaze on the boat. It will last about a year on the bottom and sides and about 9 months on the black stripes before needing to be replaced with more. It's just pure naked Carnuba with no special ingredients - smells alike petroleum.

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by Herschel » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:18 pm

BOAT wrote:Fleet Wax has been around forever - Collonite is an old company that started making wax for airplanes during WWII. The Fleet Wax is just Carnuba - really really thick Carnuba. It's so thick you can't let it dry on the surface before you buff it out - you apply it and then you buff it out right there before it dries. It leaves a pretty thick glaze on the boat. It will last about a year on the bottom and sides and about 9 months on the black stripes before needing to be replaced with more. It's just pure naked Carnuba with no special ingredients - smells alike petroleum.
Got it. I'll give it a go this winter. Probably after the holidays. Thanks.
https://www.collinite.com/marine-wax/

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by 1st Sail » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:39 pm

IIRC fleet wax was top rated in a previous test by Practical Sailor. I went with NG2 based on total time to apply and less effort overall.

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by Herschel » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:06 pm

1st Sail wrote:IIRC fleet wax was top rated in a previous test by Practical Sailor. I went with NG2 based on total time to apply and less effort overall.
I can appreciate your choice. I am guessing that you keep your boat out of the water and sun for at least half the year? I agree that the NG2 is probably easier physically to apply; I just can't the longevity out of it with a boat in the Florida sun and water 365 day a year. And at 74, I kind of need to be doing this kind of maintenance just once a year, if possible. Not quite ready for the aluminum pontoon boat, yet! :)

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by NiceAft » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:50 pm

Herschel,

If you do decide to paint the raccoon stripes, I recommend Benjamin Moore impervex latex high gloss enamel (black). That’s what I used, and it’s been a few years. Of course I am not exposed to the Florida sun, but the product is shiny and tough. It’s not a thick paint, so you have mask the area wide, and well.

Ray

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by Highlander » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:47 pm

NiceAft wrote:Herschel,

If you do decide to paint the raccoon stripes, I recommend Benjamin Moore impervex latex high gloss enamel (black). That’s what I used, and it’s been a few years. Of course I am not exposed to the Florida sun, but the product is shiny and tough. It’s not a thick paint, so you have mask the area wide, and well.

Ray
Nice to know Ray , now if u r needin to paint more my boat is a waiting but I guess I,d need to put her on the trl first lol

J 8)

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by 1st Sail » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:21 am

Herschel,
You have a 2 year lead on me. So I totally agree with your thoughts. I'm trying to decide if I want to clear coat the stripes and be done with it. FYI when we bought our current house years ago I repainted all the trim with Impervo. Excellent product. It even brushes well as it contains leveling agents. Then again I refuse to brush or hand sand anything. So it's power tools for everything. I shot the entire house with my HVLP system. It was well worth the $ as it saved a lot of time and the finish is glass smooth. If you go that route I run a Cap Spray, 2 stage turbine, 25ft hose. You can purchase different size projectors (tips) depending on the paint viscosity. I also added a low air pressure feed to the paint pot (2-5lbs) to control the feed rate. The combination of pressure feed, tip, and turbine output results in complete pattern and droplet control. Thus excellent surface finish quality. I can paint a 6 panel door in 5 mins/side with a surface that looks like it was manufactured glass smooth. Considering the $ investment I may still opt for the 2part clear coat in a can and apply to the stripes. If the surface isn't perfect you can always sand out with various grits and then finish polish. I think you could clear the stripes with a couple of cans and less than $100 from Dolfinite. If I screw up it can be any worse then Impervo. I sent an email to Dolfinite regarding estimated sqft coverage per can. I'll keep you posted.

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by Herschel » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:58 pm

1st Sail wrote:Herschel,
You have a 2 year lead on me. So I totally agree with your thoughts. I'm trying to decide if I want to clear coat the stripes and be done with it. FYI when we bought our current house years ago I repainted all the trim with Impervo. Excellent product. It even brushes well as it contains leveling agents. Then again I refuse to brush or hand sand anything. So it's power tools for everything. I shot the entire house with my HVLP system. It was well worth the $ as it saved a lot of time and the finish is glass smooth. If you go that route I run a Cap Spray, 2 stage turbine, 25ft hose. You can purchase different size projectors (tips) depending on the paint viscosity. I also added a low air pressure feed to the paint pot (2-5lbs) to control the feed rate. The combination of pressure feed, tip, and turbine output results in complete pattern and droplet control. Thus excellent surface finish quality. I can paint a 6 panel door in 5 mins/side with a surface that looks like it was manufactured glass smooth. Considering the $ investment I may still opt for the 2part clear coat in a can and apply to the stripes. If the surface isn't perfect you can always sand out with various grits and then finish polish. I think you could clear the stripes with a couple of cans and less than $100 from Dolfinite. If I screw up it can be any worse then Impervo. I sent an email to Dolfinite regarding estimated sqft coverage per can. I'll keep you posted.
I do appreciate the detail. If I understand the basics here. You cleaned up the black stripe with rubbing compound. Got it as shinny as you could and put a clear coat over it, not black paint. Or did you paint the stripes black first?

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by 1st Sail » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:10 am

Herschel,
Sorry for the confusion. Since I have the HVLP guns to shoot anything, i.e.2 part clear coat or Impervo I'm thinking about it. I called Dolphinite today and followed with an email. At $38 a can for clear this may be a much simpler solution. Based on their videos it looks like you could clean and light sand the stripes. Then tape off and shoot Dolphinite clear coat in a can and be done with it for less than $100. I waiting for answers, estimated coverage per can, coats required, preprep, application temperature range, pot life once mixed. I'm moving the boat back to my warehouse for the winter and may go all in on the clear coat from Dolphinite. I will keep you posted.

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by Herschel » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:21 pm

1st Sail wrote:Herschel,
Sorry for the confusion. Since I have the HVLP guns to shoot anything, i.e.2 part clear coat or Impervo I'm thinking about it. I called Dolphinite today and followed with an email. At $38 a can for clear this may be a much simpler solution. Based on their videos it looks like you could clean and light sand the stripes. Then tape off and shoot Dolphinite clear coat in a can and be done with it for less than $100. I waiting for answers, estimated coverage per can, coats required, preprep, application temperature range, pot life once mixed. I'm moving the boat back to my warehouse for the winter and may go all in on the clear coat from Dolphinite. I will keep you posted.
Sorry to be so slow getting back. Many irons in the fire! I have not used a spray gun system in 48 years. Needless to say, I am a little intimidated by such as system. I could get the gear and practice on my trailer, which needs a good repainting, but I am tempted to paint the black stripe with Benjamin Moore Impervex latex high gloss enamel (black), which someone on the forum recommended and wax the rest with Fleetwax that Boat recommended. What would be the down side of that from your experience?

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative FOOBS!

Post by 1st Sail » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:31 pm

FOOBS aka Fear of Oxidized Black Stripes!
Update:
I had a great conversation with Dolphinite today. Essentially oxidation is primarily attributable to the pigment and composition of the base used for application of any color coat. I got the impression that the color pigment is the more of a contributing factor to oxidation than the clear gelcoat. I need to do some additional research to determine the best course of action. Should you only apply a color coat or simply improve the gelcoat? Need some input and opinions of the chemists here. I reviewed the MacGregor factory video. The color coat is applied straight away. There is no clear gelcoat over the black color coat. So I curious if you could solve the oxidation issue overall or at least for an extended time period. The automotive industry has been applying clear coat over color coat for some time and with great success.

You have two solutions from Dolphinite- spray their black color coat which was their primary recommendation or strip the existing black stripes of all wax etc., sand with 220-400 grit, wipe down with acetone and apply their clear gelcoat.
They have lowered the price from $100/can down to $30/can. A can covers 2-5 sqft depending on the number of applications. Pot life between 60-74 degrees is approx 30min. Repeat applications may be applied directly after 5min depending on ambient temperature. The viscosity of the aerosol can gel or color coat is very low due to the nature and low pressure of the can and nozzle type. Multiple coats are a necessity to build up the film thickness and improve UV resistance.

Like all spray applied coatings you will encounter some orange peel surface texture. Spectrum color gelcoat confirms the same orange peel effect when sprayed as well. This seems endemic regardless of the equipment used. Only gel / color coats applied to a polished mold will negate an orange peel surface. In any case the orange peel surface Rz (variance) factor is minimal and can be rendered to a high gloss with progressive polishing starting with 220 if needed otherwise 320-400-600-800 wet sanding and finish polishing with a progression of buffing compounds.

They did not offer any tangible expectation with the exception of an estimate of possible 3-5yrs. They were clear that oxidation is systemic on all gelcoated/color coated/ RV and marine fiberglass surfaces. What we experience with the Mac is similar to all mfgs. I think we give some ground to the premium mfgs in that they are using better quality gelcoat materials with greater film thickness.

So for maybe $40-$120 you could avoid the hours of semi annual clean-polish-wax we experience currently. Essentially all the clean-polish prep you do for wax/NG2 is the same for Dolphinite. Sans using any polishing compounds impregnated with wax.

FYI Spectrum color coatings makes a similar product at $68.91/can vs Dolphinite $39.95/can.
https://spectrumcolor.com
Spectrum provides a number of technical specification articles which are a good read.
https://dolphinite.com

I still may give this a shot. I'll keep you posted on my research and progress.

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Re: New Glass 2 alternative

Post by BOAT » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:46 pm

Right now I am keeping the stripes very black and shiny by coating them with a very heavy layer of Fleet Wax and a good buffing - I also keep the boat covered. There will be a day someday when they will need to be finished eventually.

What I am waiting for is some genius on this website to finally realize the bucks to be made by selling wraps for the M boat - a couple of black wraps pre-cut for the stripes would easily sell for 120 bucks or more; last over 5 years, and only cost about 20 bucks to produce. It would also be an easy thing to apply.

I never was one to try to make any money with any of my ideas for the boat mods, I'm not much of an entrepreneur, but I assumed there were a lot of entrepreneur types on this site that would have figured this out by now.

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