Help! Bonehead move with forestay turnbuckle-I think

[Catigale]

D - replace that bolt latch with the flip up kind for the kiddies...especially since there is a new one on the way...Congrats and Happy Dads Day

[normo]

I dont know about the M but the X has a propensity to round up in high winds when beating. Reducing mast rake does provide a noticeable improvement. I have shortened the forestay on my previous X by 4 inches and it still round's up in a gust. I haven't been able to quantify how reduced rake affects pointing ability but with excessive rake it is not possible to trim the main properly without using excessive rudder or being driven into irons.

If the M can benefit form a change in mast rake now is the time to do it, as a change in forestay length may be necessary. Check with other M owners that have been there, done that.
If your forestay has unwound it is unlikely you will be able to salvage it if you use the thimble and two oval sleeve approach. You will loose approx 3 inches when you cut just below the sleeve and another 1 inches in doubling the cable for installation of the new sleeves and thimble. Not a good idea to use any of the cable that shows signs of unwinding. Having a swaged toggle jaw fitting installed might work if the unwound portion is very short.

I am on my second 26X and both have/had excessive mast rake (5 degrees) that could not be corrected with the turnbuckle adjustment. So rather than buy a stock forestay I had a rigger swage a turnbuckle stud to one end of a new cable and leave the other end bare with a few inches of extra length. While I was at it I specified the larger 5/32 wire as it should be more resistant to unwinding and kinking. For the free end I bought a Hi-Mod toggle fork mechanical fitting that I am in the process of installing myself after lots of measuring and remeasuring. I have used this type of mechanical fitting several times with no problems and they are reusable.

I would like to have an adjustment range of 0 to 2 degrees rake but that may not be possible as it is necessary to shorten the furler and the resulting length leaves only a few inches to accomodate stretching of the sail luff. Still a work in progress.

If you go this route you may prefer to have the rigger swage on an end fitting. CDI specifies that it be a toggle type fitting.

Bought this stuff from riggingonly.com. Have been using them for several years. Their service is excellent and the prices are usually much lower than I can buy locally. For example the local sailmaker wanted $43 for the Hi Mod fitting whereas riggingonly charged $24 for the same part.

[Frank C]

Dimitri meant upsizing from 1/8th to 5/32nds. Yes, my rigger suggested the same, and also demanded replacing the factory's top bolt by a quarter-inch clevis pin. Upsizing the stays has no detriments, but don't do it for shrouds - where there is a major downside - basic rigging tension must be increased when shrouds are upsized.

Norm's right - that we're relating X stories. The M is a different beast. I found the factory rake at exactly 4 degrees. By lucky guess, shortenting by 4 inches changed the rake by exactly 2 degrees. Norm has a good idea - leaving oneself the option to vary the rake by 2 degrees for testing and differing conditions.

Unfortunately you'll not find a turnbuckle to permit that range of adjustment (about 4 inches in length of the stay). However, there is an inexpensive "quick release" at WM for only ~20 bucks and it has a range from about 4 to 7 inches - not sure if it uses 1/4" pins though - which is mandatory!

After shortening the forestay by ~6 inches, an appropriate quck-release lever would enable an adjustment range of 2 degrees, +/-. It would also make pinning the forestay much easier, even with gonzo shroud tensions. Downside - you must fly the entire furler & headsail enough higher to fit the lever at bottom. (IIRC - Catigale has a forestay lever.)

[delevi]

With my current stay, I can get about 0 deg rake with just the turnbuckle. I also have Bill's forestay 1/4" pin. Nice. I would love to go up in thickness, since it's being replaced anyway, but I don't know if Macgregor offers this. I don't want to hassle with having a custom one made, especially since I need specific dimensions and setup for the RF. If bill sells a 5/32, that would be great. I just need to get it before June 30 so I can have the boat ready for the Tahoe trip for the Jul 4 weekend. I'll send Bill an email now. Thanks guys. BTW. Reducing mast rake makes a considerable difference on the M with respect to weather helm. I ahd my rig just right, but noticed recently that I had increased weather helm. I think the forestay may have stretched. Too bad I messed it up. Now the new one will have to stretch.

Leon

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Stephen, thanks for your well wishes and happy dad's day to you and all the other fathers out there. Good suggestion about the bolt, they are always having trouble with it. Part of the problem is that the door has been leaned on over the years and it is pushed down some in relation to the bolt receiver. Every so often, I try to contra bend it back up but that only lasts for so long.

Frank, thanks for correcting my typo, 1/4 inch rigging would be a bit big on a Mac. I guess you want to be careful that a larger turnbuckle will still fit under the furler and not rub.

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

. Yes, my rigger suggested the same, and also demanded replacing the factory's top bolt by a quarter-inch clevis pin.

I think your rigger made some extra money off you. A quarter-inch clevis pin is no stronger than the 1/4" Hex-head bolt used on the Mac's. The locknut is also safer than a ring-pin on a clevis pin.
Not my opinion - fact.

[Frank C]

Bill,
Maybe extra money but he never let on ... quoted $50 for the job, charged $50 for the job. The quarter-inch clevis pin was in the top fitting when I picked it up (but he KEPT my 1/4" bolt, d@mn him!

BTW, a fully-threaded, quarter-inch bolt is not nearly as strong as a quarter-inch clevis pin.
Just check the shear-strength tables ... the difference is vast.

[Catigale]

(IIRC - Catigale has a forestay lever.)

Here

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

BTW, a fully-threaded, quarter-inch bolt is not nearly as strong as a quarter-inch clevis pin.
Just check the shear-strength tables ... the difference is vast.

You are correct, obviously, about the above.

However, the Macs use a 1/4" hex-head bolt, threaded only on the end, with the locknut tightened up so that the only exposed threads are on the outside.

Your rigger reminds me of a local sail shop. I took a sail needing minor repair to him. I asked how he was going to do the repair. (I used to do sail repair work. ) He told me the correct way.
I picked up the sail, paid him $42.50, tooke it home, and found he had not done it correctly. I removed his repair job and did it the right way.

[Frank C]

I understand why a fully shouldered 1/4" bolt is a good solution at top of the forestay, but the bolt the factory provided in mine was a bonehead (fully threaded) quarter-inch bolt. (Maybe assembled on Monday?)

If I could find a hardened fully shouldered bolt I'd use it.

[delevi]

What bolt are guys talking about? Is it the d-shackle to which the top of the forestay & shrouds attach? Would a 5/32 cable fit in the CDI RF luff?

THX
Leon

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

I understand why a fully shouldered 1/4" bolt is a good solution at top of the forestay, but the bolt the factory provided in mine was a bonehead (fully threaded) quarter-inch bolt. (Maybe assembled on Monday?)

If I could find a hardened fully shouldered bolt I'd use it.

I doubt that it came from the Mac factory.