MacGregorSailors.com

I use Sailkote: http://www.mclubemarine.com/sailkote/

~Rich

apauwels wrote: 2. I lubricated with soap, which improved the sliding. This week I will be in Germany and will buy proper lubcrication (no sailshops in Dubai ) Any suggestions on which lubricant to use for the slugs?

Ahmed

Just buy silicon spray, you can get it in every Baumarkt in Germany and anywhere...

I use dishwashing liquid specifically. Acts as a lubricant. Environmentally friendly.

apauwels wrote: 2. I lubricated with soap, which improved the sliding. This week I will be in Germany and will buy proper lubcrication (no sailshops in Dubai ) Any suggestions on which lubricant to use for the slugs?

Like Rich, I use, and like Mclube Sailkote. Unlike other lubricants, Sailkote dries after it's applied and leaves a dry film that won't attract dirt, and won't wash off. Nice and clean, too.
-B.

[quote="seahouse"]Newell- Parallel paths we have here.


Of course, in the threaded area a 1/4” screw only has a cross-section of about 3/16”, so I think upgrading that is a good plan if you have room. Going with stainless means a weaker bolt than alloy steel would be too. The side loading at that point of the boom is limited by the righting moment of the boat, but that doesn't consider sudden gust loads, or any bending forces during handling. Yes you have it exactly. The cross-section is weak, showing up after 7 days of sailing, some in very windy conditions having the mainsail tight.

Re: the lock pin - even if the boom were to rotate slightly under sail, (without the vang to right it) I can't see that it would inhibit, and might even slightly enhance, the sail shape and aerodynamics. Did you notice much rotation without the pin, and any negative effect from it? Maybe I'm just not looking closely enough. I run loose foot mains and it probably isn't a problem but didn't like the boom rotating and twisting the aft slug slightly. Since I was removing 1 bolt of 2 so I could rotate the boom, my thinking was the pin could add strength, but in fact, not much

I found that just turning the whole thing by hand, without a crank, is pretty easy too; and also keeps it simple- nothing to drop overboard.

Do you just use a bolt through the aft endcap for swiveling?

Hello Captain Seahouse,

Yesterday sailing was more fun than usual. We had a high winds weather alert yesterday from Santa Ana winds. Boat made very good speed and a good time was had by all.

This was our first high wind alert for the year so I wanted to get out and test the bolted main thing in high winds – the main slides up and down with no problem – everything worked great.

But the boom is still an issue – in high winds it’s harder to get the foot in. It’s real easy in the harbor or in light winds, but in heavy winds it’s a little bit of a pain in the aft. I can do it just fine but if the boom rotated it sure would be easier to get the foot in. AND if I could roll up the sail on the boom it would be very neat.

Is that roller boom gooseneck you made just go right into the stock one?? Is it a good piece of hardware?? (Good and strong?)

Do you like the way it works? I have an old jib furler from my old boat that I was going to convert but I really like the look of your unit and I would like to know how you like it. Did you make one for mastreb?

After reading Newell's post on the bent pin (thanks Newell!) I considered this issue more closely to think on the circumstances of how it could become overstressed, and I have a possibility...

I think there is a vulnerability that exists at the time when the boom is rotated around to approximately 90 degrees to its normal position because in that position the orientation of the pivot does not allow movement in the vertical direction. If the boom were inadvertently lifted (or dropped) for any distance in this position it would put a lot of leverage (the length of the boom) on that point, that would otherwise simply hinge, were it in the normal position. Since I have been using a topping lift, I have no situation where this scenario would come about. I also notice from my picture above that a dodger, if present, would prevent the boom from dropping and overstressing this joint.

Once a person is aware of it, it becomes a non-issue. So, mastreb, as you stated, you will be able to pivot your boom upward to disengage the kicker as long as the boom is rotated fairly close to its normal orientation, or 180 degrees to it. But the end of the boom will need to be supported, or otherwise maintained at approximate right angles to the mast when rolling.

But having said that, I have decided to beef up that pivot on the one I'm presently making to a 1/2” dia. stainless steel socket shoulder bolt, the largest I now see the space will allow, which should be more robust than it needs to be in any scenario. And stronger than the one on my boat (the 4 pictures in above posts) which has been through almost 2 full seasons without bending. BTW, BOAT– yes, that part is a straight swap for the factory stock piece (the 3/4” stainless tube that has holes drilled in it) – see my postings above.

I'm picking the bolt, and the 3/4” stainless steel bar stock up on Friday (not locally-stocked items), but worked on the UHMW today, will have that finished tomorrow.

How do I like it? So far, it is a work in progress, one component among several others that have not been finished yet. I wouldn't even be writing about it yet had the topic not been brought up by others.
But that particular part performs even better than expected, and the luff management details need to be worked out yet. I am looking forward to mastreb's input on it. One of the beauties of it is that it doesn't preclude the option of leaving the mast gate closed and flaking the sail the original way, whenever I choose, and I do that too.

When I rolled the sail around the boom by hand, I just grabbed it and twisted it, kinda' like rolling up a blueprint or chart, but involving the arms, as well as the hands. With nothing (no crank or pivot handle) attached to the aft end of the boom.

- B.

Thanks skipper for the update. I will wait for the evaluation from mastreb.

Don T wrote:Hello,
I have found the best lubricant to be dry teflon spray (Sail Coat at West Marine). Wet type lubes will collect dirt very quickly.

Forgot to order that one from West Marine, had bought this one instead. http://www.rei.com/product/634908/finis ... oz-aerosol
It is for the bike chains, but also dry, also teflon. Is it OK for the sails?

Just as an alternative the mountain bike industry has been on this for decades and has quite the assortment to choose from. Think of trying to drive a chain driven crank through a heavy mud puddle then on through some sand dunes... Ah ha! Most go on wet and dry clear and are rated for aluminium frames. Most repel h2o as this attracts dirt. They have tons of options for exactly the conditions you are looking for (wet , dry, mix, high heat, high visc ect ect) at half the price and almost every town has a bike shop these days. Nothing wrong with sailkote or any other brand, but there are cheaper and better alternatives out there. IMHO

That's a great suggestion yukonbob. Now that I've been looking more diligently, I've found PTFE spray lubricant packaged for other applications too.

The only caveat I would give is to test it on a small part of the sail (or halyard material) first. Sail material (Dacron, polyester, etc.) can be pretty chemical-resistant, but the carrier solvent used in the product for metal bike chains could be different (and more aggressive) than that used for sails.

-Brian.

Definitely test lubricants for other markets on a small inconspicuous area of sailcloth--lubricants made for metals are also likely to stain.

I received Brian's (Seahouse) rotating gooseneck about a month ago, and finally got out on my boat to install it and sail.

Feature #0: Direct replacement for the MacGregor gooseneck.

Feature #1: Took about 5 minutes to install, and that consisted mostly of fishing a dropped nut out of the daggerboard trunk (again). Seriously thinking of making a daggerboard trunk cover.

Feature #2: Now you can furl (but not reef) your main! After making a slight "mod", I can reliably furl the main onto the boom by myself. It's easy with two people, but very possible to do with one.

Feature #3: Very solid build. Stronger than the stock gooseneck.

Installed according to Brian's instructions, I had a really tough time getting the rolling started. I had my son at the clew end rotating, and I was at the gooseneck making sure nothing went wrong. Of course, plenty went wrong.

Problem #0: Unfurling in wind is an issue, because the boom has to be managed at the end while you're doing it and the wind can put some real forces on the person whose trying to hold onto it. You need to stay pointed at the wind (irrespective) but this complicates things. The correct solution is to unroll the main completely off the boom while keeping the sail low on deck, attach the mainsheet, and then hoist the main. In moderate wind (below 8 knots) it was easy to simply unroll and hoist simultaneously. The best solution will be a knob at the end of the boom that can be shackled to the mainsheet to hold the boom securely in place while the main is being unfurled in winds.

Problem #1 was I had an oversize head tack pin that kept catching the tack ring as it rotated around. But the tack ring likes to catch on everything. The solution is to fold the small triangle of the tack over so it's inside the first turn. This keeps the tack ring away from everything.

Problem #2 was more severe: Brian's rotating gooseneck is designed with a slight offset up (or down, if installed upside down) because the axial pin upon which the device rotates has to go all the way through the forward end, and without this offset, the mast gooseneck securing bolt would have to go through the pin. Offsetting the hole for the securing bolt solves this problem.

The issue comes in when you're rotating it: Especially with a rotating mast M, as you rotate the boom, the gooseneck has to lift the boom 1/4" at 0 degrees and drop it 1/4" at 180 degrees, and with this up/down motion in the boom rotation, the mast would rather rotate over and the gooseneck kinks. This happens every rotation, and it made it a bit of a pain.

The solution turns out to be simple: You can completely eliminate the problem by turning the gooseneck around and bolting the plastic end to the mast and bolting the metal end to the gooseneck, opposite of Brian's intended use.

Now there's no rise or fall to the rotation, it rotates very easily, never kinks, and in combination with my other learned trick of folding the triangle of the tack inward on the first rotation to get the tack ring out of the way , it became very simple to furl and unfurl the mast. I could reliable furl and unfurl as fast as I could physically turn the boom and manage the halyard.



If you're doing it one person, you have to manage the halyard and turn the boom at the same time. It's a bit tricky, but I can easily manage it myself. Single handing the operation is important to me, although I will usually have a helper.

I don't use a topping lift as mentioned previously in this thread, but I do have a boom kicker. The boom kicker is no problem at all with the gooseneck--you simply angle the boom up, the boom kicker head slides out of the plate on the boom, and drops right out. No issue there. Also, it does serve to keep the boom from rotating at all when you're sailing. So it's completely compatible.

I use D-shackles on my mainsheet and vang, so they're simple to unclip from the boom bails. The bails I leave on and roll the main up over them. Very simple.

When the boom is completely furled, I tie the halyard off to the clew end of the boom through the pad-eye on the end to hold it in place, do a few raps, and then cleat off the end of the halyard to the small cleat on the cabin-top that was originally for the roller furler, but which I otherwise don't use. Using this method, you can angle the boom up anywhere from level to 45 degrees as you please, which is great because it gets it up and out of the cabin.



So it works perfectly well for me in this reversed configuration, and I recommend it for main storage. The only issue with turning the gooseneck around is that your boom is now offset from the boat's centerline by 1/4". Not an issue, but if you've got an issue with slight asymmetry, this is not the mod for you.

Brian mentioned the issue that when the boom is rotated 90 (or 270) degrees, all of the axles are aligned vertically so the boom cannot go up or down. While that's true, with the reversed configuration it's only an issue between 85 and 95 degrees. Beyond that, there's enough rotation to accomodate just about any angle you'd put on the boom, and the boom will just rotate if it needs to accomodate more. So it's an issue you should be aware of, but it's not as big a deal as I thought it would be. You should be careful not to stop rolling until the boom is rotated vertical to avoid the problem.

If you want roller furling, don't need reefing, and usually have a partner, this device does the trick and works with boom kickers, topping lifts, vangs, and mainsheets just fine.

Solid recommend. The only improvement I might recommend would be to figure out a way to put another axis of articulation in it 90 degrees offset, so that there's no angle at which the boom cannot be bent.

Matt

P.S. I have an Inmon roller reefing mainsail system for sale if anybody wants. Works fine, but too much installation, extra size, and extra weight for a person who takes the boom off all the time as I do.

The one I made is just exactly the same as the stock goosneck, except imagine if the stock goosneck was two pieces that could rotate from each other. That's what I have.

The end of the boom is hanging from a trapez attached to the topping lift (it's an aluminum metal bar angles to mimick the angle of a topping lift) the metal tang is only about 6 inches long and bolts to the end of the boom and is loose and turns freely. there is a hole in the top to connect the topping lift and a hole in the bottom to connedt the mainsheet.

I just disconnect the mainsheet (I have a clipeye on it) from the boom and reclip it to the trapeeze. The up nad down motion you describe on my rig only happens at the mast end because the trapez end is balanced in the center of rotation but i like the "bump: at the mast end cuz keeps the boom from unraveling on me as I roll it up. Also, I can "lock" the boom rotation at any pont where the boom is at 90 degrees by pushing the boom forward a little so it's "jacknifed" against the mast. That comes in real handy for single handling the mainsail.

It is not somthing to mess with high wind at your side but works great in most all other conditions. Now I just cover the rolled up mainsail right on the boom with a mainsail cover (battens and all) and unpin the goosneck and just lay the whole boom on the side of the cabin to lower the mast. What I really like is that I can now easily tuck in the corner of the tack into the slot by just releasing the outhaul (I moved that to the middle of the boom so I can do it all from the mast or the cockpit) after I bought the outhaul kit from BWY because I needed the block to move the cleat . I will get picture out but the mast is down right now.

For a trailer boat I think this is the best way to do it instead of a lazy jack. I'm not sure what effect slugs have in regards to trailer set up, probably the same.

Mastreb- thanks for your description, I'm happy you are satisfied with it.

Interesting that you found that it can be installed in reverse for another set of operating parameters. Creative thinking at its finest- it's convertible!

I did neglect to say earlier that the screw that passes through the two tangs on the boom and plastic part of the pivot needs to be snugged up enough so that it is prevented from kinking when you are rolling it, but loose enough to still allow the boom to hinge up or down. I believe it should solve that particular issue, if you chose to again mount the piece in the opposite orientation. It looks in the picture like you might have used a quick release pin (in place of the factory 1/4” - 20 screw) which wouldn't put any clamping pressure on the plastic piece to restrict its movement.

Also, the slight offset between the pivot axes allows the boom to rotate more closely about its central axis, to counteract the slight offset of the factory mounting holes. Then that should greatly reduce the up and down oscillation at the mast end of the boom. (But I'm really going from memory on all this, I still won't be able to see my boat for a several weeks yet, to confirm it).

To all- In order to make use of economies of scale and offer mastreb a reasonable cost, I bought enough materials to make 5 units, so if there are others on this forum who would like one of these units I will make 4 more (if there are 4 of you) and offer them for $90 including ground postal shipping (PM me).

At that price point (and volume) I'm sharing this mod with others, so this is not a business venture for me, and as such I expect it stays within the forum rules.

The units are made from UHMW (a commercial grade polyethylene), and stainless steel, with a stainless steel threaded axle screw - (the best quality materials I could find) and are as large (= strong) as the space permits. The axle screw is Loctited, and interlocked with one of the through-bolts, so it cannot accidentally come unscrewed in use.

Hey BOAT- sounds good, I'd like to see the pics of your unit too. I'm always open for input.

-Brian.