90 HP Outboard (2-stroke or 4)

[They Theirs]

Overpowering a MacGregor ?
The Accident waiting to happen!

Insurance won't pay!

Hp rating on boat

Overpowered Insurance Questions

Overpowered Outboard Insurance Questions

Outboard Motor Repair- Way overpowered??!!

Oversize outboard contributed to accident

overpowered boat, What about liability or insurance coverage for modified engines?

Interesting...
This exercise was actually for a friend of mine who was looking at an overpowered 20' Outrage. Though I must admit that I had been thinking about putting the Johnzuki 140 4S on my 17 (it actually weighs LESS than the 90-115 - go figure).

At any rate, I just got off the phone with my Progressive agent (I have had auto insurance with them for 5+ years). That conversation was very enlightening. I asked for a quote to insure my boat with a 140. She spoke with the underwriters who informed her that Progressive will NOT insure any boats that have power exeeding the mfgs. rating. I asked her if it was just in MN (they do insure boats in MN), and she said that it was not. According to her, all of Progressive won't insure them (I asked about a surcharge, and she said no). I mentioned that I have a few friends (ok, I don't really know you guys, but you all seem like a decent bunch!) who have overpowered boats insured with them. The response was that they would not cover a claim or a boat if it was found out that the boat was overpowered.

I'm sure you guys have read your policies and are indeed covered with Progressive. I just find it odd that I got a completely different answer to my inquiry.

Thoughts?
-WS

[DLT]

My wife bought me a 2006M with a 90 ETEC for Xmas. She's something. My first best guess was a 14x13 prop. I dumped her in the water, tested the no break in, and saw 23.5 MPH/4800 RPM with full balast and 3 adults on board. Although in the recomended RMP range ... I swithed to a 14x11. With it saw 23 MPH/5200 RMP with full [ballast] and 2 adults and 2 children.

I'm surprised at the RPMs you are seeing for that monster 90hp with those pitched props.

I'm pretty sure I get more RPM with a 14x11 than what you found.

Of course, you have a different gear ratio and RPM range, so...

At your engine's 5200 RPM you're spinning the prop 2600 RPM, with your 2:1 ratio.

I think I get higher, but at 5200 engine RPM, I'd only be spinning the prop 1947 RPM, with my 2.67:1 ratio. Even at 5500 engine RPM, which would be my guess (I don't remember what I was seeing), I'd only be getting 2059 prop RPM.

As it is, I normally spin a 14x9, which gets me right at the top of the RPM range. Of course, I don't get anywhere near even 20MPH...

You should see well over 25MPH, probably close to 30MPH, without ballast... I'd be real interested in what you find, as I am seriously considering going up to a 90...

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

I understand the warranty, undertsand the risk, and dismiss it. If I drive the boat smartly, and I will, I don't anticipate any problems. If they do occur, I'm prepared to pay to fix it. I am confident my dealer will take care of any non hull related issues.

The agent I have done buisness with for a long time wrote the policy, no questions. asked. I sent an application to BoatUS and they appeared ready to insure it also.

Dan

i had a similar experience with my agent.
i am not afraid of 90hp.

Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90 TLDI

[Chip Hindes]

they theirs, the examples you are providing, citing dire consequances do not apply to the Mac. Those examples are for boats which are required by law to state on the manufacturer's data plate the maximum allowable horsepower. These statements of max HP are required by law and have the force of law, but they are not required on any boat above 25' and there is no such plate on the Mac.

[Frank C]

Further to Chip's observation, I believe the Boating Safety Act of 1971 (see USCG.org) actually regulates boats less than 20 feet (rather than 25).

The Mac 26 has a "manufacturer's recommendation" of outboard horsepower, not a rating. If the legally prescribed "rating formula" was applied to the dimensions of a Mac 26 hull, that horsepower limit would exceed Macgregor's recommendation (50 hp) by about 200 more hp. Note that many of the 18-footer hulls that ARE regulated, carry ratings of 200+ hp.

The rating of maximum power capacity became a matter of U.S. Federal Regulations in the mid-1970's following the adoption of the U.S. Boating Safety Act of 1971. This dictated that all outboard boats of less than 20 feet in length must carry a capacity plate stating the maximum number of passengers, maximum number of pounds for passengers and gear, and the maximum horsepower of the outboard that should be installed.

The regulation did not make it illegal for the operator to exceed the rated values, only that they were required to be stated on the boat's capacity plate. Exceeding the numbers was a matter of personal liability in case of an accident, and in some states, for additional violations, in the event on an on-water arrest (for other violations) by marina patrol

Bigshot, forgive me, but as an Insurance Broker, I have to correct or clarify your statement, which could or could not, be true.

1. If one intentionally misrepresents HP to your Agent, and gets into an accident, your statement could be true. Only when an insurance contract is issued under false pretenses, can coverage be denied.

2. Assuming one is honest (a good thing to be in a legal contract like insurance), and tell your Agent your HP, if he's good, he can find you a company that will insure your boat with it's stated HP, regardless of published limit. The insurance Co has issued you a contract and they are obligated to defend and pay on your behalf, up to liability limit of the policy. It's now their problem, not yours. Because of increased risk, they will charge more.

I've yet to see "stupidity" exclusions in liability insurance policies. Even if you break the law by exceeding the speed limit or DUI, they pay out, as long as there's a valid contract between you (i.e. no misrepresentation by you up front, i.e. driving record, boat power, etc).

[delevi]

I borrowed 14x11 prop from my dealer and tested it on Friday. To my surprise, the accelration was poor and I topped out at 18 mph. The RPMS hit 6200 and felt like the engine had more to give but was probably held back by the computer. On my 14x13 prop, I got excellent accelerationa and speeds of 21 mph @ 5400 RPM. This is just a bit below the 5500-6000 range for the engine. I was shocked at how much difference dropping pitch by 2 made. I'm considering getting my old, chewed up prop rebuilt and sized down to 13.5x13 just 1/2" less than my 14x13. Based on the experience with the 14x11, a 1/2" should give me a few 100 RPMS and put me in the range. Thoughts?

[delevi]

I sure wish my wife bought be an E-Tec 90 for Christmas. Perhaps if I'm a good boy, I'll get one next year, or as soon as we get some spare cash. Just bought a new house so the bigger engine will have to remain on the wish list for now, along with the autopilot, some nice sails, radar.....
Does anyone know what a 90 E-Tec costs? Can't find any prices online.

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

I sure wish my wife bought be an E-Tec 90 for Christmas. Perhaps if I'm a good boy, I'll get one next year, or as soon as we get some spare cash. Just bought a new house so the bigger engine will have to remain on the wish list for now, along with the autopilot, some nice sails, radar.....
Does anyone know what a 90 E-Tec costs? Can't find any prices online.

here's a website w/ some pricing...
ETEC 90 Pricing

interesting, shows ETEC 90 at MSRP of $9174 w/ special "found on internet" discounted price of $6499.
the MSRP's look accurate, but not sure how accurate the special pricing is.
for example, in 12/04 my TLDI 90 had a MSRP of $8100 yet was installed, w/ tax for $7200.

Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90 TLDI

[delevi]

I paid somewhere around $7,300 for my E-Tec 50 installed. I think I got hosed. Granted, it was an excellent install with all cable run through the pedestal post. The only thing sticking out is my fuel line; but still, for the same price, I could have had a TLDI 90. Ouch!

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

you didn't get hosed...
yours was a "Mac package" deal, right?
you could have only done better if you'd purchased "boat only", then gone out and gotten your "best deal" on an outboard from another dealer.

Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90 TL

[delevi]

True, come to think of it, the package, which had most of the equipment I wanted was a savings of about $2500. I guess when you factor in the engine, it's more or less a wash. Still would be nice to have a 90 hp but you need to get that from an outside dealer no matter where you buy your Mac.

[DGA]

I paid somewhere around $7,300 for my E-Tec 50 installed. I think I got hosed. Granted, it was an excellent install with all cable run through the pedestal post. The only thing sticking out is my fuel line; but still, for the same price, I could have had a TLDI 90. Ouch!

$7300 seems fair. For the ETEC 90, control box, cables, ignition switch, tach, system check guage, voltmeter, prop, 2-6 gal omc tanks, hoses, extra battery, battery switch, wire harness, intstall and 5% tax came to $8970. More goes into the install than I anticipated. Adds up quickly.

Dan

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

True, come to think of it, the package, which had most of the equipment I wanted was a savings of about $2500. I guess when you factor in the engine, it's more or less a wash. Still would be nice to have a 90 hp but you need to get that from an outside dealer no matter where you buy your Mac.

i know an '05 M owner that worked a good "boat only" deal and then put on a TLDI 90.
he paid about the M list price at the time ($18K), then went to the same guy i went to for the TLDI 90 several months after me. i believe he paid about $8K because it was a brand new boat and he needed some additional components (battery, cables, etc).
then he had to go out and purchase all of those extra items seperately that came with our "package deal".

anyway, like i have previously said, if the Etec was as available and cost effective as it is today, i would have purchased the Etec over the Tohatsu.
the tohatsu, although very reliable and proven, isn't "new tech" like the Etec is.
next year ('07) the tohatsu most likely will be upgraded with a 3 or 4 Star rating. so it should be quieter and more efficient like the Etec.

the real benefit of a larger engine vs. Suzi, Honda, Tohatsu 50 is the larger prop. it just provides more control in rough seas. i now feel safer out there in the big ocean.

Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90 TLDI

[Moe]

I borrowed 14x11 prop from my dealer and tested it on Friday. To my surprise, the accelration was poor and I topped out at 18 mph. The RPMS hit 6200 and felt like the engine had more to give but was probably held back by the computer. On my 14x13 prop, I got excellent accelerationa and speeds of 21 mph @ 5400 RPM. This is just a bit below the 5500-6000 range for the engine. I was shocked at how much difference dropping pitch by 2 made. I'm considering getting my old, chewed up prop rebuilt and sized down to 13.5x13 just 1/2" less than my 14x13. Based on the experience with the 14x11, a 1/2" should give me a few 100 RPMS and put me in the range. Thoughts?

Leon, we experienced the same 800 rpm rise when I went from a 13-7/8" x 15" to a 14" x 13" pitch on the BigFoot 60 on our Whaler... expecting the 200 rpm per inch everyone quotes.

The difference is that it made a big difference in acceleration and response when heavily loaded and/or in heavier seas, and top speed when heavily loaded was the same to a tenth of a mph, but at 6,000 rpm rather than 5,200 rpm.

I never used the 13" prop when lightly loaded, where we'd gotten 5,400 at 2 mph faster. We might not have reached that speed and the rpm would've certainly been close to or at the rev-liimiter.

The bottom line is that we now have a prop for each situation, it takes 2 minutes to swap them, and we keep the unused one on board as a spare.

--
Moe

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

regarding 12-13" props on a 50hp...

when i had my suzi 50 4 stroke and my X was loaded with weight, the stock 12.5 x 13 pitch prop "lugged" the motor.
so, i ordered a 12" x 11 pitch prop from I-Props.
it cavitated at WOT. my speed was unsatisfactory & the rpm's were 1,000 higher at WOT than the stock 13 pitch.

i then ordered that same size from Michigan Match props.
what i discovered when i placed them side by side is that the two 12.5" x 11 pitch props were different.
one was "streamlined" and did not grip enough water for the heavy Mac.
while the other had big "dog ears" which provided alot of surface area. this type of prop is used on pontoon boats and grips the water.

bottom line...for most 50's that use a 12-13" prop to push a Mac (Suzi, Honda, Tohatsu), try to get a prop with large/full "dog ear" blades. even "cupped" blades work well.
this way, although it may not shoot you out of the hole (hole shots!), it will be able to grab more water to push your heavy Mac and optimize speed.

Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90 TLDI