Features of the ideal Custom Trailer

[Starscream]

Once again I turn to this forum for expert advice. Mastreb: don't leave this forum until you have put in your $0.02!!!

Just down the road from my house is a small custom trailer shop. I have looked at their work and am very impressed: all bolted construction, government approvals, nice welds and so on, and very high recommendations from the Marine shop where I just changed out the motor. I brought the boat by their shop for an estimate on the following:

Steel construction, primed and epoxy paint. (freshwater use only)
Dual 3,500 lb axles with electric brakes on each axle.
5,800 max boat weight
Electric Brake control module installed in the truck.
Two-speed winch
Bunks custom designed to match the Mac underbody, mounted parallel to the direction of travel
Dual goalposts with carpeted bunk between them to help retrieval (I think this is a good idea, but might change my mind...don't want the boat to rotate into a bad position)
LED lights, spare tire and carrier, etc.
One year bumper to bumper warranty.
Multiple axle-mounting bolt-holes to allow the axles to be repositioned based on the boat CofG.
Walk-on reinforced plastic fenders.
Extended running/brake light support so that there is a red light situated behind the tail of the motor.

The shop is measuring the original trailer in order to place the bunk supports at the same place as the current bunks. The idea is to make the bunks the most rigid at the same place on the hull, and then between the bunk supports the bunks should flex a bit and not put too much pressure on the hull in areas where it doesn't touch the stock trailer. They have invited me to witness every step of the fabrication, and will accept input and modifications as the build goes along. Price: $4,700 CDN including the mods to my truck (electric brakes).

So, the question is: Am I on the right track, and what are the other ideal features that I should ask for in this design?

Anyone need a slightly used 2002 X trailer with dual axles?

[mastreb]

Well, okay here's my $0.02 (CDN):

:: Trailers aren't works of art or collectable, so the cost would need to be at the value peak for the purpose, which with Mac trailers is about $3000, maybe $3500 in Canada where everything seems to be more expensive than the exchange rate would suggest. $4700 CDN seems exceptionally high to me. I appreciate good craftsmanship, but it needs to be competitive as well. Also consider that no customization of the trailer is actually going to add residual value when you sell the boat--buyers look at the boat and only make a "That's a trailer/that's not actually a trailer" decision when they buy. They won't pay $1 extra for anything on it.

:: I would definitely have higher longitudinal bunks to guide the boat in irrespective of the ramp angle. The problem I often see, especially with our water ballasted boats, is that the boat will rotate after it's inside the posts. I've had my boat break a post off doing that. With side bunks, you'd be able to securely power into the trailer which is nearly impossible with the stock trailer because the bow won't snug into the V-block unless the depth is perfect, which it never is in my experience. I would also have snug polyethylene ropes from these bunks to the V-block to guarantee proper guidance.

:: Given my experience with the aluminum/steel trailer that came with my 2011, I would never have steel components on a boat trailer. Yes, I'm in salt water but the difference between my rust-treated drawbar and the aluminum parts of the trailer is dramatic. After just three years, my security chains are rusted through, the brake cable has rusted off, the galvanized hooks are rusted seized--it's all time to replace. The drawbar itself is okay only because I used frame rust converter on the interior when new--the spot I missed is very rough.

Even though your home waters are fresh, you seem like the kind of person who's likely to hitch your trailer up to your RV and want to take it somewhere salty at some point--especially once you've got a nice new trailer that you won't be afraid of pulling for a few thousand miles.

Also consider how the trailer is going to look when you eventually go to sell the boat, and what that future owner's use will be. They may be towing straight to salt. All-aluminum is the only way I'll ever go again with a boat trailer.

:: I like the single-axle trailers but I know a lot of people want the security of two. That said, 3500 lbs. each is way overrated for a MacGregor, even a very heavy one. This isn't a good thing, it causes two problems:

::: Wheel camber

Trailer axles aren't just built to sustain a load, they're also inherently sprung to the expected weight and built with a non-adjustable alignment wheel camber that is based on their load rating. When you put the properly rated load on an axle, the wheels go from being "bowed in" to "perfectly level". Running an empty trailer bowed in is no big deal because the tires aren't under significant load, so they don't wear much at all. However, the trailer bounces around like crazy. Running a weight that's matched to the axle capacity means the tires run with the load properly distributed across the contact patch with the tires level.

But running a load that's under-rated for the tires means that the wheels run with their camber bowed in, and the outside of the tires wear-out much faster because they're bearing the load. It's ALWAYS out of alignment.

::: Suspension

Being overrated also means that the load is going to bounce a lot more than it should because it's over-sprung. A properly sprung load will float along behind you effortlessly, with the axle taking the bumps. When over-sprung, the excess spring causes the load to bounce around behind you, pulling the truck all over the place and working all your tie straps, your winch strap, and your hitch pin, which is where those failures come from.

So I would strongly recommend weighing your tow load, splitting that in half, and having both axles rated for that load, because there's no way your Mac weighs 7000 lbs. I'd be shocked if it were more than 4,500. I'd use 2500 lb. axles at absolute maximum.

Actually, I'd use the single stock axle, but I don't think I'll ever convince anyone else that its the right way to go despite the fact that I'm pretty certain I'm the trailer mileage leader amongst Mac owners...

:: Absolutely get the Trailer Valet instead of a regular jack stand. SOO much easier to hitch than even using a backup camera. Worth the money.

:: I'm ambivalent about trailer lighting. I'd like to believe that waterproof LED lighting exists that will last the life of the trailer, but I've had to rewire my trailer lighting every year, so now I'm at the point where I just buy the cheapest "trailer lighting kit" at Autozone, tie strap everything down, and go with that. I cut it all off and replace when my truck indicates that I've got a light out. The tie straps have a much longer lifetime. After a year its all corroded to death. I live in salt and by the sea shore, so now my theory is "$40/year = new lights" and just deal with that. On the plus side, I never have to change a lightbulb.

:: Consider an electric winch with remote. What I'd like to be able to do is power into the trailer, allow the motor to idle forward which along with your side bunks will hold the boat in place, go forward to the bow, reach down and hook the winch to the D-ring, and then use an electric remote to snug the boat onto the trailer. Then I can cut the motor and raise it, give a thumbs up to the tow driver, and pull everything out of the water without getting wet.

Ah the nirvana of the dry retrieval. I can dry launch, but I've never been able to dry retrieve.

Anyway, have fun with the new trailer!

[Russ]

Some good points above.

My biggest disagreement with Matt is over dual axles. He's a single axle believer, I am not. Mainly because I like redundancy. If one tire blows, I'm not dragging a hub down the highway at 75mph. Most folks here who upgraded to dual and testify they are not sorry.

I didn't see where you specify the type of suspension. The newer aluminium Mac trailer uses torsion bars.

What I've read is these firm up when they get closer to their max load. So adding 2 with 3500 rating makes for a softer ride. The springs don't reach their max where they are firmest.

Do you need electric brakes? I find the surge brakes work well.

I've only been in fresh water, however my aluminum trailer looks brand new after 6 years. No rust, no problems. I'd do LED lights if doing all over. For one reason, the bulbs don't need to cool before dunking them. Peace of mind knowing they probably won't burn out.

I know there are some great mechanic types that will give more feedback.

--Russ

[mrron_tx]

Sorry Matt : I am a dual axle Guy as well..... Just feels better to me all the way around Ron.

[fishheadbarandgrill]

What ever trailer solution you chose, have them wire the trailer with a single ground... it will make troubleshooting lighting failures much easier (LED or incandescent).

Bob

[Catigale]

The guys down in FL have now standardised and trailers in aluminum for 3000 USd FOB FL.

Link coming. Definitely on my list when my 12 year old steel trailer packs it in.

[raycarlson]

Mastrebuild is not correct about the dual axle statements. The axle beam should always be stiff enough to NEVER flex, one that flex's causing change in camber is either way overloaded or structurally damaged, but they are never designed to AUTOMATICLY flex to proper camber angle. And as far as M's rough riding statement, the empty load part is correct, but any trailer bounces like hull when empty. As far as a dual 4200# UFP torsion axle it's clear he has just never actually pulled one down a bumpy two lane forest road, I and virtually every person on this forum who actually has done this change to 8400# gtw has attested to the fact that there is absolutely no bouncing at all, they run smooth as glass in all situations, I don't think the dozen or so of us who have reported the same findings would all be lying, any one near the Tucson,az area who would like a test drive is more than welcome to drive my rig if they have any doubts, the results are truly impressive.....

[Spector]

I second raycarlson's opinion. I have had the second axle for about a year now and can attest to the fact that it is a much smoother ride for the boat, particularly noticeable on rough, potholed pavement. I believe that this is due the fact that a single drops everything in to the pothole. A dual axle trailer is still supported by the axle that is not in the pothole. As far as sprung weight, these boats really do start to get heavy with all the gear loaded etc. Plenty of weight to make the dual axle suspension due it job.

We did a 2000 km (1250 m) trip last year and it towed like a dream. We have another similar trip coming up in a few weeks

I just replaced all the brake lines (finally hooked up the second braking axle) and installed side bunks and removed the goal posts.

PS I have an aluminum trailer

[RobertB]

My $.02:
Factory trailer is pretty good but has four issues I have addressed:
1. Most of us quickly load up the boat in excess of the trailer rating. Second axle is a good way to address.
2. The steel front of the trailer is a PITA. I now just spray any rusty spots with zinc/galvanizing spray. Seems to work OK.
3. Brake lines are downright dangerous with the very small/weak/brittle end fittings. Get a standard brake line set from WM and be safe. (I did this change in the parking lot of Assateague Island - real fun.)
4. Custom wheel jack is cr#p. Took about an hour to grind/chisel the old one off and bolt on a new one.
Minor issues:
The stock fenders bounce and mark up the hull (solved with the second axle installation)
The tail-lights are low quality

Notes on the second axle:
The axles, being two independent torsion axles, are not loaded equally unless the trailer is perfectly level.
The axle(s) with the boat load on the center does deflect and change the geometry of the wheels to the road. So what, it is just a trailer. This does not affect handling in the least. The tires will wear out due to old age long before the tread does.
The ride is very smooth.
I have noticed no decrease in maneuverability, not that it has not changed, but I have not had any problems.
Second axle is also great if you find a hole in the ramp or go off the end. This happened to me and I never noticed until I got home and found my fender somewhat crushed (hammered it out and good to go)

[mastreb]

Mastrebuild is not correct about the dual axle statements. The axle beam should always be stiff enough to NEVER flex, one that flex's causing change in camber is either way overloaded or structurally damaged, but they are never designed to AUTOMATICLY flex to proper camber angle.

Most trailer axles are designed with slightly positive camber in order to flex to 0 when properly loaded, and all torsion bar axles are--that's how a torsion bar works. It's how the stock UFP axles work on MacGregors, and you can see the flex on a stock single axle trailer when you load it. It's not a lot of movement, but it is enough to provide correct alignment.

Some info:
http://blog.easternmarine.com/trailer-a ... all-about/

Here's an axle manufacturer discussing the common in-built bend in the axle designed to straighten to 0 camber under expected load deflection:

http://www.dexteraxle.com/faq_s

I'm not dissing 2nd axles at all, and there may well be axles so strong that they don't deflect at all under load. But the UFP axles that come stock on our trailers definitely deflect under load. You can see it for yourself when the boat is loaded and unloaded.

I know my opinion regarding the single axles is the minority. But I have infact hauled my trailer over some very bad roads including dirt, and yeah, it's going to be a bumpier ride than a dual axle under those conditions. And sure, dual axles give you four tires and that's some extra safety in a blowout.

In the 10,000 miles I've hauled my MacGregor, they're simply not necessary for these boats. Just my opinion.

[BOAT]

In a long haul situation on a heavy boat I can't really argue with dual axles. For those of us that use the trailer to take it to the nearby marina I see no reason at all to have dual axles.

I know many of you tow your boats long distances to get to your favorite spots and the peace of mind from another axle is something I can't argue wit - but all the history after all these years and millions of miles traveled by thousands have boats have already proven the fact:

The dual axle is not necessary.

Sorry guys. Don't get mad at me.

[Russ]

Most trailer axles are designed with slightly positive camber in order to flex to 0 when properly loaded, and all torsion bar axles are--that's how a torsion bar works. It's how the stock UFP axles work on MacGregors, and you can see the flex on a stock single axle trailer when you load it. It's not a lot of movement, but it is enough to provide correct alignment.

I believe this to be true. The Mac trailer has the boat actually resting on the axle. That seems a bit weird, but it is what it is.
However, in my case when my boat got heavily loaded, the axle bent TOO far and caused the tires to wear on the inside from too much camber. My boat is heavy, but not necessarily heavier than many others.
(these tires have less than 2,000 miles on them)


One major benefit to the second axle is my mediocre tow beast (Dodge RAM truck) is happier. Much less wiggle at high speeds. It simply feels smoother. 95% of my towing is at 70+mph speeds on single lane highways with no shoulder and this is important.
And as mentioned, the comfort in knowing I could blow a tire and still travel a reasonable distance until I can pull over is a comfort.

The stock trailer is adequate. Matt has put plenty of miles to prove it. It is not dangerous. However, I like lots of redundancy and like knowing my trailer has more than double the capacity of what I'm using. I like to have reserve, same with my Mac. I rarely power at WOT, but it's nice to have that reserve.

Happy new double axle

--Russ

[mastreb]

Russ's experience with weight and camber on an overloaded single axle is something to look for and a reason to upgrade to a 2nd axle if your boat is heavier than stock. Because of the axle flex, if your Mac is over the maximum weight loading for the stock axle, you will wear your tires out with negative camber. You can see the negative camber by simply looking at your boat from behind.

When I did my cross country trip, we did a tire change after 6,000 miles. The boat was laden with camping supplies and equipment well beyond our normal load, and I did see substantial additional wear on the inside of the replaced tires due to negative camber (and because I was running them under-pressured due to a misinterpretation of the sidewall that this forum cleared up for me).

My single-axle comments come from the perspective of a boat that is near-stock in terms of weight. My mods have all been additional electronics and changes to existing weights, not addition of tanks, cabinetry, or heavy equipment. If you have a heavy boat, you should go with a 2nd axle, but I maintain that it should be properly sized to your actual weight and not substantially over spec.

[raycarlson]

I'm sure this topic will get renewed in another year or two, and we all will rehash our opinions to the new guy asking the question. Surely none of us will have changed their opinion of whats best, as there all just opinions and everybody has one... I've had only one failure a wheel hub on a bassboat about 20 years ago where entire wheel and hub separated from trailer axle at about 50mph on curvy national forest road, so I'm surely biased towards dual axles. Others have never and probably never will have a white knuckle experience towing so you cant discredit their opinion single vs dual. I just feel so much more relaxed towing my rig knowing loss of a wheel will be no big deal..thats mostly where my opinion originates from.

[BOAT]

Ray, If I were towing 'boat' on curvy National Forest roads a lot I would probably want another axle too but I would think for all the freeway miles these trailers have already racked up over the past 20 years it seems pretty evident no failures are going to occur.

Remember, almost every boat made was shipped from Costa Mesa to far flung places all over America towed on that trailer! All the trailers out east already have 3000 miles on them!

That's a pretty good testing program. I just don't want to scare the new people into thinking their stock trailers are not up to the task.