26 classic vs. an X or M?

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Sugar Bear
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by Sugar Bear » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:14 pm

I am a newbe that just bought a :macx: this last summer and we are :D so far. The :macm: was very expensive compared to the X or S, I was concerned about the dagger board getting damaged in our Missouri lakes (underwater rocks and trees) and the smaller rear access. I did like the bigger inside area and the mast.

Based on talking to S owners, looking at one, and reading a lot. the S is a better sailing boat at a very good price. I did not like the small motor, smaller inside area, tiller stearing (just me), or getting in to the boat from the water (SCUBA diver). While towing is a very big reason I bought my :macx:.I did not concider this when looking at the boats as I have a one ton truck, however I do think that this is important if you have a smaller towing vehicle.

As all ready noted it is what design characteristics do you want and what can you afford to pay.

RJG 26S
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by RJG 26S » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:17 pm

The 26S is a very nice boat and I had a lot of fun with it the 2.5 years that I had it. I just sold it a couple of months ago so that I could get a :macx:

The main reasons that I wanted to make the change were:

1. We were doing more multiple day trips and fewer afternoon sails. With more time spent in the cabin, we were cramped on the 26S with its limited headroom, lack of a dinette, a head that can only be used sitting down, and a general lack of storage space. Also the seating inside both the cabin and cockpit is lower which does not allow you to comfortably sit for longer periods of time.

2. We had a need for speed. On numerous occasions cruising in the Puget Sound, we found ourselves fighting a 3-6 kt current and would be making only 1-4 kts over ground. Now with our 50 horsies and planing hull, we can go 15.3 kts. Not enough for skiing (we tried), but plenty for kneeboarding. This is a blast 8)

3. The Admiral said that she would go out more often in a more comfortable and faster boat. If mamma is not happy, no one is!

Bob

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baldbaby2000
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by baldbaby2000 » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:46 am

I've raced my M against the 26 classics. They're much faster. The M has a lot of freeboard that probably hurts but I think the hull shape--entry and exit--is worse for sailing with the M. I've found that weight up front on the M helps; probably because it gets the transom more out of the water.

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hoaglandr
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by hoaglandr » Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:21 pm

Does anyone really use that ladder hanging off the transom of the :macm: ? I haven't had the chance to use mine yet (I'm still a newbie) but looking at it in the driveway I can't see how it's really worth much and I have not been tempted to try it out. Between the rudder and the Yamaha 50 there is not much space (And I am not a small person :) ). The ladder on Sumner's S looks much more useful. I ordered a swim ladder from West Marine.

Russell

Boblee
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by Boblee » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:33 pm

Sumner
If you think this is your loaded weight I think it would pay to get your boat weighed.
I think most people find that they are at least 2600-2800 lbs. going down the road. By adding the second axle, longer frame, third trailer bunk, both outboards on the boat, 30-40 gallons of water and everything else we are way over 3000 lbs., but I don't know by how much,
My suggestion would be a minimum of 4500 lbs but more likely closer to or above 5000 lbs unless you carry a whole heap of gear in the truck.
I weigh our boat each year prior to heading off and am constantly amazed at how weight builds up and btw we don't have a second axle or extended trailer but do have an extra bunk and heavier springs also carry a max of 4 gallons of water on the road with extra in the truck along with dinghy and motor, food, clothes, all fuel etc.
The Mac is basicly stripped except for what we need daily when travelling but it would rarely get below (if at all) 2200 kg (4850 lbs) so have no idea where anyone gets the figures of "2600-2800 lbs".
We do have a few extras but the arch, extra 26 gal water tank and cupboards are all light weight aluminium except the 21 gall bladder, the only other extras on board are the electronics and a 70l fridge (55lbs?) and bedding.

Bob

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Sumner
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by Sumner » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:53 pm

Boblee wrote:Sumner
If you think this is your loaded weight I think it would pay to get your boat weighed.............Bob
Hi Bob, the numbers I was giving were for an S or D. From most of what I've read with people posting weights they aren't as heavy to start with as an X or M, but I might be wrong.

I'll weigh ours if the opportunity arises, but now with the second axle and disc brakes I'm not to concerned anymore. I guess it weighs what it does. I think if it was 4500 to 5000 lbs. the single orginal axle would of been bent more than it was.

I'll post if I ever do get it weighed,

Sum

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Boblee
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by Boblee » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:07 pm

Hoaglandr
We use the stern ladder exclusively on land or water, the space may look small but if you get a cover for your motor you can use it to swing your bum onto and then change position easily to get up.
It is a source of constant amusement to watch strangers trying to use the ladder when both myself (64 yrs 6' and 209 lbs) and my wife 57-shorter and heavier get up there with ease, on the water it's just as easy by dropping the rudder and ladder then climbing straight out of the dinghy but also using the motor to sit on.
On water here we usually have to step aboard quickly as these blokes are usually not far away and even a little one like this would have a taste especially if you get near the water but if it is safe the ladder is easy enough even when swimming.
Image
Bob

Boblee
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by Boblee » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:17 pm

Yep the s would definitely be lighter but many would be as surprised as me by the actual travelling weight loaded or unloaded, I think the factory understates it a bit and the basic trailer was/is definitely too light but if I was keeping the boat would only put a heavier single axle on not duals but then thats just me.

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hoaglandr
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by hoaglandr » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:53 pm

Boblee,
You've convinced me to give it a shot! Unfortunately I think it will be a while before we can try it in the water (No nasty critters here!), but I've got quite a few mods I want to get done over the winter so I'll definitely try it out.

Regarding the original post I guess I really was sold by the powersailor aspect of the :macm: . Could of paid a lot less for one of the older Macs but as a new sailor the security of having that big motor to get me out of trouble tipped the scale. If it sails slow, that's OK with me. If I was in a hurry I wouldn't be sailing anyway.

Russell

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Sumner
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by Sumner » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:06 pm

hoaglandr wrote:.....The ladder on Sumner's S looks much more useful. I ordered a swim ladder from West Marine.

Russell
Not sure if you noticed or not, but I.....

Image

.....added another step at the bottom which will help climbing the ladder if you are down in the water and I .....

Image

....also made all of the steps flat. A lot easier on the feet both with and without shoes and I ....

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...still have it set up to use as a tow bar. We wouldn't want to give that up or using it as a horizontal platform to get in and out of the dinghy.

More here.................

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... de-30.html

Sum

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hoaglandr
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by hoaglandr » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:16 pm

Sumner,

I've checked out your mods and am envious of your skills! Looking at your ladder makes my point. Your outboard is offset and you have a single rudder allowing you to use most of the starboard side of the transom for your ladder. The :macm: 's outboard is centered with the twin rudders, leaving very little space to squeeze through. But Boblee assures me it works so who am I to argue! Just another point in the S vs. M debate! Can't wait till spring to really start using the boat!

Russell

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beene
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by beene » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:24 am

I love my M
Would not have been happy with an S, D or X.
Just a personal choice.

I had a sailboat before my M and knew I needed to get away from the sailing only speed capability of a pure sailboat.
There are times where I need to go much faster. You can't outrun bugs at 6mph. LOL

There are some sailboats our there that can make me look like I am standing still as they pass me, but that would depend on the point of sail and the type of boat.
Pure racing hull design J boats vs a Hunter or Cat or even say a Benny cruiser vs racing hull of the same company.... big difference.
Upwind would be the worst as most can point higher and go faster with less heel etc.
Where I sail, I quite often end up dropping the 75, point right into the wind, and hit 22kts to get home before supper. Otherwise I would be playing the tacking game all night.
Wind is coming from the marina, 8 miles away, narrow channel, start tacking to get home, can do 40 off apparent (guess as I do not have proper instruments to accurately compute that), if the wind picks up, my speed increases and the apparent angle moves away from where I want to go, that being home base...... so I end up loosing more and more ground.
I end up running out of time, and do what I said above.

I sail for fun, not for races and purpose, just pleasure. If I really need to get somewhere and I am under the gun..... down goes the 75 and away we go.
I will always sail first, and motor when needed. But it is nice to have that ability.
If I had a nice big 30 something pure sailboat, I would not be able to sail as far away from the marina as I currently do as again, I would be limited to a max hull speed restricting my range from home base. If I were retired or had no time constraints, sailing would be all I would want to do. That wont happen for quite a while yet, so the M is a perfect fit for me and my family.

As for the swimming and using the ladder off the transom, I have found the the gap between my large 75 head at about double what a 50 would be, 1600cc vs 799cc, and the side of the boat outboard motor well is not a problem. I climb the ladder, use the mast arch to help climb out of the water, then I sit on top of the motor which I leave in the down position. Now picture that, you are sitting on top of the motor, transom seat is open and out of the way, you now have a large opening right in front of you so it is not like you are trying to squeeze between the side of the motor and the boat. The only thing that has to go through there is your legs as you rotate your body from facing sideways after climbing up the ladder and onto the motor. After you turn your body to face the boat, you just stand up and walk through the large opening where the helm seat used to be.

.02

G

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TexasDan40
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by TexasDan40 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:44 pm

I have a 1998X.
I met a guy last weekend overnighting in a S with a pop-up.
It didn't look as roomy inside.
Te :macx:

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markh1f
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by markh1f » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:49 pm

Beene,

Off topic but I have found siting on the outboard is the perfect place to take a sun shower after a swim. You can hang the sun shower off the arch and it works out great.

I also love my :macm: but do wish it sailed a little faster.

Mark

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Highlander
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Re: 26 classic vs. an X or M?

Post by Highlander » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:23 pm

I have no problem towing my boat with my Ford Ranger but I like to have the hammer down 65-70mp/h so I'm really thinking of installing a second axle for that reason & the load factor for the alum trl is only 4200# with a single axle total . which Iam sure I'm easly over by at least 800#
Boat 2550# trl 575# eng. 400# Fuel & water min 200# all sails & running gear rigid vang ect easily 1000# personal gear for two 100# food 50# beer & booze min 50# extra lines & spare parts 100#
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As for sailing I have no problem with my :macm: most standard sails boats only go 5-7 knts under sail so I have no problem sailing with them the faster boats are usualy fitted & loaded lightly for sailing & only have 4ft headroom in their cabins if they have one :o , the race boats will always be faster under sail ! :( but I'm not racing I can usualy sail faster than most standard sail boats in the heavier weather due to the extra weight & more sail area , when I 'm past by the standard sail boat its usualy because of a better Skipper or good crew or lighter loaded boat :) so I can live with that 8)
I have no problem sailing into the wind either again I beleive because of the way my boat is rigged
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http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 4942-1.jpg

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But I do know that Beene's boat sails away much faster in light air since he put on I beleive V-17 anti fouling paint on the Hull so I will be doing that Mod next yr also but I'll go with the expoxy coat first then V-17
But I love my :macm:

J 8)

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