New tow beast time

A forum for discussing issues relating to trailers and towing MacGregor sailboats.

Moderators: Catigale, Paul S, Heath_Mod, beene, Hamin' X, kmclemore, tangentair

User avatar
dlandersson
Admiral
Posts: 3445
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:00 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Chicago metro, USA

Re: New tow beast time

Post by dlandersson » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:51 am

More than willing to put the wife and kids back there - saw it all the time in the ME, but child services can be a PIA. :|
RussMT wrote:
dlandersson wrote:Nice points. I'm looking for something with more than front seat/back seat (thinking ahead to kids with friends, scouts, sports, etc.). :P
DaveB wrote:I am still happy with my extended cab F150 1999. Has a 6 cylinder 202 hp standard trans with 98,000 miles.
Pulling a dual axel heavy weighted MacX. Had front stainless steel disk brakes but got rid of them 3 yrs ago so no brakes on trailer.
I just move along with it for past 5 years.
Max tow for the Truck with standard trans is 2000 lbs . All my tow boats exceeded that since new.
Dave
If you don't need an open bed to haul junk, then an SUV like the Suburban is probably the way to go.

User avatar
dlandersson
Admiral
Posts: 3445
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:00 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Chicago metro, USA

Re: New tow beast time

Post by dlandersson » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:46 pm

What does it mean when the used car salesman asks for a deposit? :(

Got a line on a 2007 4X4 Suburban with tow package ($12k). Salesman says that there's an offer on it - but it the financing probably won't be approved. Wants to know I can put a deeposit on it - bear in mind I haven't seen the vehicle yet. This somehow seems a bit off. Am I missing something? :|

K9Kampers
Admiral
Posts: 2345
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:32 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: NH, 2001 MacGregor X - Tohatsu 50 / 2013 Ford F150

Re: New tow beast time

Post by K9Kampers » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:33 pm

If ya are a fish, 'deposit' is when ya feel that cold steel hook setting in yer lip! :D

User avatar
Tomfoolery
Admiral
Posts: 5199
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:42 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Rochester, NY '99X BF50 'Tomfoolery'

Re: New tow beast time

Post by Tomfoolery » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:58 am

Just did my first long trip in the Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel. Just short of 800 miles. It was quite comfy, though the driver seat was a little hard. But oddly, my back didn't hurt when I stopped and got out like it always did in the Highlander. Usually, I walk like Walter Brennan in 'The Real McCoys' when I stop after 4 hours or so, but not this time. Could just be coincidence, and time will tell.

Very stable on the highway, with slower steering than the Highlander when going straight, which is a good thing at highway speeds. Softer ride than either 4Runner I used to have, but a little firmer than the Highlander. Much firmer than our Odyssey. None of which is surprising, of course.

Visibility was fine. Controls were easy enough to use when trying to keep attention on the road. The cruise control buttons under the right thumb are nowhere as easy to use (or even find) as the stubby stalk on the right side of the wheel (attached to the wheel) that all Toyotas use.

The louder (than gas) diesel engine was drowned out by highway wind and road noise for the most part, and gone with the radio playing loud enough to be heard. Hill climbing with cruise control didn't even cause a downshift - it just kept going, which is a noticeable departure from most gas engines, though I don't know what the big hemi's would have done.

Mileage eventually hit 32 mpg on the dashboard display on the outbound trip with the trip meter reset when I filled the tank at the start, going east (with prevailing winds) and south (all downhill - look at a globe if you don't believe me :wink: ), so some local driving is included in that. On the way back, it started dropping, eventually showing 28.7 mph for the whole trip, with 30 miles or so of local driving with lots of starts and stops. Highway driving was almost all NYS Thruway, Mass Pike, and I-91 in CT, with a little I-95 thrown in there just because I miss living there so much. :P 65 mph using cruise control, and only a couple of times up to 70 to pass something. On a long trip, I'm in no hurry to save 10 minutes when I'm in it for 7 hours anyway (with a stop or two).

Image

I used 26.8 gallons, and drove 788 miles, for a calculated quotient of 29.4 mpg, though there's bound to be a little error in there, as I filled it until the nozzle tripped, so some variation is bound to happen. But it more or less confirms the on-board fuel mileage readout. It's also a little gratifying that the EPA mileage estimates actually seem a little low (28 mpg highway for the 4x4), whereas in the past they were always very optimistic.

None of which has anything to do with actual towing, but 99% of it's use is without a trailer, so performance, comfort, and mileage are important to me without the boat. I previously reported that it towed the boat well, and I'm curious what sort of mileage it'll get with the Mac in the back. I'll be happy if it gets half what it gets without. :D Assuming there's a MMOR this year, that'll probably be the first long trip with the boat. Hint hint. :wink:

Oh, and the only bits of that instrument cluster that are real are the fuel and temp gauges on the right, and the tach on the left. The whole middle is a screen. The center of the speedo can be set to show many different things, including turn-by-turn when using the nav system, temperatures (oil, trans), maintenance, DEF level, real-time mileage (like a Prius does), and so on. I don't know what it does when the speedo is set to 'digital', as the giant speed numbers take up the whole middle of that area, but I like analog better anyway, so I'll probably never know. :|

User avatar
mastreb
Admiral
Posts: 3944
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:00 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Cardiff by the Sea, CA ETEC-60 "Luna Sea"
Contact:

Re: New tow beast time

Post by mastreb » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:20 pm

That's good mileage. I drive it's littermate, the diesel 350GL, and find I can easily do a 13 hour drive with no back issues. But the seats are different between the two. The difference for me is lumbar support. With it, I can go forever. Without it, I'm crippled in two hours.

raycarlson
Captain
Posts: 789
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:42 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: tucson,az

Re: New tow beast time

Post by raycarlson » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:59 pm

A Mercedes is a littermate to a Fiat with an Italian Motori diesel.Thats a new one.

User avatar
RussMT
Admiral
Posts: 5527
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:01 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Bozeman, Montana "Luna Azul" 2008 M 70hp Suzi

Re: New tow beast time

Post by RussMT » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:52 pm

Tomfoolery wrote:for a calculated quotient of 29.4 mpg
Wow! That's really good. I imagine with the torque of the diesel, towing will be good as well.

User avatar
Catigale
Site Admin
Posts: 10363
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:59 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Admiral .............Catigale 2002X.......Lots of Harpoon Hobie 16 Skiffs....Island 17
Contact:

Re: New tow beast time

Post by Catigale » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:13 pm

Tomfoolery wrote:Just did my first long trip in the Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel. Just short of 800 miles. It was quite comfy, though the driver seat was a little hard. But oddly, my back didn't hurt when I stopped and got out like it always did in the Highlander. Usually, I walk like Walter Brennan in 'The Real McCoys' when I stop after 4 hours or so, but not this time. Could just be coincidence, and time will tell.

Very stable on the highway, with slower steering than the Highlander when going straight, which is a good thing at highway speeds. Softer ride than either 4Runner I used to have, but a little firmer than the Highlander. Much firmer than our Odyssey. None of which is surprising, of course.

Visibility was fine. Controls were easy enough to use when trying to keep attention on the road. The cruise control buttons under the right thumb are nowhere as easy to use (or even find) as the stubby stalk on the right side of the wheel (attached to the wheel) that all Toyotas use.

The louder (than gas) diesel engine was drowned out by highway wind and road noise for the most part, and gone with the radio playing loud enough to be heard. Hill climbing with cruise control didn't even cause a downshift - it just kept going, which is a noticeable departure from most gas engines, though I don't know what the big hemi's would have done.

Mileage eventually hit 32 mpg on the dashboard display on the outbound trip with the trip meter reset when I filled the tank at the start, going east (with prevailing winds) and south (all downhill - look at a globe if you don't believe me :wink: ), so some local driving is included in that. On the way back, it started dropping, eventually showing 28.7 mph for the whole trip, with 30 miles or so of local driving with lots of starts and stops. Highway driving was almost all NYS Thruway, Mass Pike, and I-91 in CT, with a little I-95 thrown in there just because I miss living there so much. :P 65 mph using cruise control, and only a couple of times up to 70 to pass something. On a long trip, I'm in no hurry to save 10 minutes when I'm in it for 7 hours anyway (with a stop or two).

Image

I used 26.8 gallons, and drove 788 miles, for a calculated quotient of 29.4 mpg, though there's bound to be a little error in there, as I filled it until the nozzle tripped, so some variation is bound to happen. But it more or less confirms the on-board fuel mileage readout. It's also a little gratifying that the EPA mileage estimates actually seem a little low (28 mpg highway for the 4x4), whereas in the past they were always very optimistic.

None of which has anything to do with actual towing, but 99% of it's use is without a trailer, so performance, comfort, and mileage are important to me without the boat. I previously reported that it towed the boat well, and I'm curious what sort of mileage it'll get with the Mac in the back. I'll be happy if it gets half what it gets without. :D Assuming there's a MMOR this year, that'll probably be the first long trip with the boat. Hint hint. :wink:

Oh, and the only bits of that instrument cluster that are real are the fuel and temp gauges on the right, and the tach on the left. The whole middle is a screen. The center of the speedo can be set to show many different things, including turn-by-turn when using the nav system, temperatures (oil, trans), maintenance, DEF level, real-time mileage (like a Prius does), and so on. I don't know what it does when the speedo is set to 'digital', as the giant speed numbers take up the whole middle of that area, but I like analog better anyway, so I'll probably never know. :|
Tom..I'm going to guess you come in at 23.5 mpg at 65 pulling your Mac....

User avatar
beene
Site Admin
Posts: 2536
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:31 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Ontario Canada, '07 26M, Merc 75 4s PEGASUS

Re: New tow beast time

Post by beene » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:52 am

I got 12.5 mpg with my 2004 Dodge Durango using a 5.7 v8 Hemi when towing the mac.

Avg 19 mpg when not towing.

Had to go

As Tom says.. 98% of the time I am not towing anything, so as a year round vehicle the V8 hemi was too thirtsy for my liking.

I would go with what Tom has or the Toureg, A7, either one in diesel only.

G

User avatar
Tomfoolery
Admiral
Posts: 5199
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:42 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Rochester, NY '99X BF50 'Tomfoolery'

Re: New tow beast time

Post by Tomfoolery » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:25 am

Catigale wrote:Tom..I'm going to guess you come in at 23.5 mpg at 65 pulling your Mac....
You heard it here first! Looking forward to testing that hypothesis. 8)

Oh, and the fuel is a 'winterized' blend of 15-20% #1 diesel oil with the remainder being #2 diesel. #1 has a lower specific energy content, and therefore fuel mileage is going to be a little lower in winter. With a turbo and aftercooler, I don't know how much affect the colder ambient air will have, though.

But even with winter blend fuel, I couldn't be happier with the mileage (I'll be curious to see if it improves in the summer), considering the trailer gross weight it's rated for and what the alternatives are with the same capabilities.

User avatar
Tomfoolery
Admiral
Posts: 5199
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:42 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Rochester, NY '99X BF50 'Tomfoolery'

Re: New tow beast time

Post by Tomfoolery » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:40 am

beene wrote:I would go with what Tom has or the Toureg, A7, either one in diesel only.
Either of those (the A7 is a sedan, in case anyone isn't aware), and the Mercedes SUV with BlueTEC diesel, are more money. :( Also more refined. :) But definitely mo' money. :( :(

The Jeep is, AFAIK, the cheapest diesel vehicle on the market in North America right now that's suitable for towing, and isn't a pickup truck. The RAM diesel pickup quad-cab and short bed with the same engine is less money than the Jeep, by the way, though options can (as always) bump that up fast. Higher tow rating, too, not that it's needed. :wink:

User avatar
yukonbob
Admiral
Posts: 1878
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:54 pm
Sailboat: Other
Location: Whitehorse Yukon

Re: New tow beast time

Post by yukonbob » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:05 pm

Tomfoolery wrote:But even with winter blend fuel, I couldn't be happier with the mileage (I'll be curious to see if it improves in the summer), considering the trailer gross weight it's rated for and what the alternatives are with the same capabilities.
Always had way more power with the colder winter air temps here with turbo'd intercooled engine. I remember the fuel economy being about the same but way more bark below -20’c. Only problem with that was the possibility of breaking something. At -40”c the engine always wanted to go the rest of the car sure didn’t though. Do you really need to use type 2 down there? Fouls injectors less efficient etc etc etc.

User avatar
Tomfoolery
Admiral
Posts: 5199
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:42 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Rochester, NY '99X BF50 'Tomfoolery'

Re: New tow beast time

Post by Tomfoolery » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:11 pm

mastreb wrote:The difference for me is lumbar support. With it, I can go forever. Without it, I'm crippled in two hours.
I forgot to mention that - the driver's seat has two different power lumbar adjustments. That might have something to do with it. I haven't messed with them yet, but I wasn't a basket case when I got out, so there's probably something to that.

User avatar
seahouse
Admiral
Posts: 2182
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:17 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Niagara at Lake Erie, Ontario. 2011 MacM, 60 hp E-Tec
Contact:

Re: New tow beast time

Post by seahouse » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:35 pm

Nice vehicle, Tom. 8)

Yup, colder air is denser, and it's the input of air, and not fuel, that limits the power output of an IC engine. So you'll feel more power when sucking in colder air, it's particularly noticeable on a motorcycle when pushing hard when it gets cold in the fall, it can feel like you have a whole new (larger) engine. On a snowmobile, really low temperatures can lean out the mixture enough to destroy the engine of it's beyond the engine's ability to tolerate or adjust for.

At the same time, there is more friction (everywhere; the transmission, wheels, bearings, drag) at colder ambient temperatures, and the engine has a larger temperature range to pass through when warming up at startup, a time when it runs least efficiently. So the net result is poorer fuel mileage at colder temperatures (all winter long).

I noticed your temperature reading was 38 degrees, so you know it will improve from that in the summer, and also that you only have 1700 mi(?) on it. Fuel mileage will also continue to improve as the engine breaks in and "loosens" for the first few thousand miles, as happens with every new car.

Yeah, the lumbar support in the last two vehicles I've had was an inflatable pad in the seat, blown up by a pump, and a knob that you turn on another. While I find it takes a lot of experimenting, I seem to always like them turned up near to, but not quite at, the maximum setting.

But a setting that feels good after a few minutes can be quite a different story after a few hours. I've found that just moving the all the seat settings around on a long trip can make all the difference, as opposed to finding one setting that you "like" and leaving it there.

Hey Matt - you mean there was no massage setting on your Merc? :D

User avatar
dlandersson
Admiral
Posts: 3445
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:00 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Chicago metro, USA

Re: New tow beast time

Post by dlandersson » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:07 pm

And its does nice double-duty for the kiddies when the weather turns to s---. :)
Tomfoolery wrote:
beene wrote:I would go with what Tom has or the Toureg, A7, either one in diesel only.
Either of those (the A7 is a sedan, in case anyone isn't aware), and the Mercedes SUV with BlueTEC diesel, are more money. :( Also more refined. :) But definitely mo' money. :( :(

The Jeep is, AFAIK, the cheapest diesel vehicle on the market in North America right now that's suitable for towing, and isn't a pickup truck. The RAM diesel pickup quad-cab and short bed with the same engine is less money than the Jeep, by the way, though options can (as always) bump that up fast. Higher tow rating, too, not that it's needed. :wink:

Post Reply