How do I pull further onto the trailer?

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Tomfoolery
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by Tomfoolery » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:27 am

sailboatmike wrote:The second issue is that we have to have the trailer in so deep to float on because of the bow bunk, I'm seriously thinking of putting a roller just before the bow bunk so I dont have to dunk the trailer so far, this will also help reduce the fall back from the bow stop
Same here. It's on my to-do list for pre-launch work; locating the roller while the boat is on the trailer, so it's just below the hull and not contacting it, but will help raise it onto that little front bunk without crashing into it, or dunking so far on my super steep ramp that I can no longer even see the very tall goal posts. :|

vkmaynard has a nice arrangement on his new trailer that I'm going to copy, shown in this recent thread. Linked for the benefit of others who may not have read it, as I know you're well aware of it already. :wink:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26541

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sailboatmike
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by sailboatmike » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:48 pm

Tomfoolery wrote:vkmaynard has a nice arrangement on his new trailer that I'm going to copy, shown in this recent thread. Linked for the benefit of others who may not have read it, as I know you're well aware of it already. :wink:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26541
Exactly, but I cant see the issue with the boat sitting on the roller instead of the front bunk, that would be the thickest part of the fiberglass. One could leave the front bunk in position to work as a guild when bring the boat on. I was thinking of having 2 rollers on some sort of pivot arrangement so when the boat comes up the bow can climb onto the roller easier

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Tomfoolery
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by Tomfoolery » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:24 am

sailboatmike wrote:Exactly, but I cant see the issue with the boat sitting on the roller instead of the front bunk, that would be the thickest part of the fiberglass. One could leave the front bunk in position to work as a guild when bring the boat on. I was thinking of having 2 rollers on some sort of pivot arrangement so when the boat comes up the bow can climb onto the roller easier
Probably no issue. My bow sits with the load favoring the rear edges of the two carpeted blocks as it is, since they're not actually tilted back to conform to the angle of the hull at the bow.

Maybe it would be better to just remove that little vee bunk altogether and just bolt a roller assembly to the small channel cross member and be done with it. I'll have to sketch that up and see what it looks like. But I think I would still need some sort of vee up there to guide it toward center, as it's already tricky to get it into the bow block with any wind or current.

I extended my goal posts well above the rub rail, and I still have to bury them in the water to where I can't see them in order to get the bow onto that wee vee bunk. :|

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paula_ke
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by paula_ke » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:37 pm

After 8 launches and recoveries at a shallow, sandbar backed ramp in Mulege and a 3600 mile round trip from southern Oregon to Mulege, Baja Sur Mexico, I learned a few things about my 2011 26M and trailer.
First, I modified my trailer to have two axles. Absolutely essential if you are going to Baja and travel Mex 1.
Second, for long hauls, the winch strap alone is not sufficient to keep the 26M from slowly slipping back off the V bunk. I use a safety chain and a tie down strap through the forward safety rail stanchions down to the trailer tongue just forward of the jack. I still get drift back, but only an inch or two. And I stop the hobby horsing. The bow hobby horse forces are distributed across the winch strap, safety chain and tie down strap.
Third, I always silicon lube my bunks. Intentional or non intentional Mac bumps always push the bow into the V rubber.

The 8 recovery and launches in Mulege only required me to drive 1.5 miles from ramp to RV pad. In these cases I did not find it necessary to use the tie down strap. My recovery procedure went something like this:

1, If possible, empty ballast before heading to ramp.
2, Before dunking trailer, silicon spray all bunk seating areas.
3, Dunk trailer till the rear wheels of my hauler touched the ramp water. This placed the trailer as deep as I could get it and still keep my hauler out of the water
4. Line up and motor the boat onto the trailer until bow hits V bunk.
5, Hook winch strap and haul boat as much on to V bunk as possible.
6, Push boat further on v bunk using motor (be careful, even with motor lined up properly, motor torque will cause bow to jerk sideways.
7, Winch and push with motor until snug against rubber V
8, Pull boat out of water with hauler

9, After pulling out of water, the Mac will settle back and there will be a 2 inch gap between the bow and the rubber V (at least on my setup)
10, Find a good paved road section and, at very low speed, slam on brakes (Mac bump)
11, Boat slides forward into V rubber
12, fasten safety chain.

Rinse, repeat for each recovery.

:macm:

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wardski
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by wardski » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:07 pm

I just gave up trying to snug the boat all the way to the v shaped bumper. It would always be 4 to 6 inches back. I just installed a roller back behind the v bunk and raised it up 2 inches a above the v bunk. The boat now sits solidly on the roller and the v bunk is just there for looks. The boat rides so so much better, solid as a rock but still 6 inches back from the v shaped bumper. The Mac bump worked well with the old Macgregor 25 but with the M and that big heavy 70 hp motor on the back, I could never get it to move. The boat wants to sit 4-6 inches back so I just adapted the trailer to make it stable there.

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sailboatmike
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by sailboatmike » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:41 am

When you think about it the trailer design really isn't optimal for the size and shape of the boat, a brake back trailer may work better with some nice rollers, I'm still in the process of measuring up to put a roller or two so the boat bow doesn't sit on the bunk, I can live with the fall back if I can winch it back up but the height of the bow eye means the winch is pulling the boat down into the bow bunk, Im thinking rollers all the way up the keel, I get jealous of watch people pull their 25 footers out without getting wet or messing about having to drop back in to pull it up again. Simple geometry will be my friend I think

kurz
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by kurz » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:18 am

Why you people care about the 2inch space? Does not harm the boat at all???!!!!!

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Sumner
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by Sumner » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:00 am

Tomfoolery wrote:Of course, the best solution, short of using all rollers, would be to make a readily adjustable bow stop so that in the forward position, you load the boat to the stop, and after it rotates back and away when pulled up the ramp, you move the stop back to meet the boat. The forward position would be the correct position for the boat on the trailer once hauled, with the stop moved back to provide support and stability on the road.

I should look into that, too. :wink:

Edit: I think Sumner did something like that for his 26 Classic, in fact, along with moving the winch.
Image

Has worked great and with two 3/4" wrenches you can move it one way or the other in about 30 seconds. More on it here...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... ds-17.html

Sumner

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1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

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The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

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paula_ke
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by paula_ke » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:42 am

Well, 2 inches is not so bad. However, the further back the boat is on the trailer, the more weight is hanging off the back of the trailer. If allowed to creep back, this can be a destabilizing problem for your tow rig. If you plan on towing for hundreds or thousands of miles, it is best to keep the boat as snug as possible.

For me, a solid trailer makes the most sense. Hauling a brake/back trailer over Mex 1 in Baja where pot holes can be 12 inches deep just seems like asking for trouble :c :?
:macm:

kurz
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by kurz » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:00 am

Well Paula, the place where the boat sits on the trailer is given by the tongue weight. In some range you can change things inside the boat to help achieving the tongue weight. But after that you have to move the boat or the axles.
Maybe also the bow stopper can be moved forward if a space of some inches are a problem.

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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by Be Free » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:07 am

kurz wrote:Why you people care about the 2inch space? Does not harm the boat at all???!!!!!
It does not matter to the boat at all. There is still plenty of support even if it is not all the way forward. For me it is a matter of stability at highway speeds. Two inches back and the trailer starts to fishtail around 50mph. When it is all the way forward it is still perfectly stable at 70mph.

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Tomfoolery
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by Tomfoolery » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:31 am

Be Free wrote:
kurz wrote:Why you people care about the 2inch space? Does not harm the boat at all???!!!!!
It does not matter to the boat at all. There is still plenty of support even if it is not all the way forward. For me it is a matter of stability at highway speeds. Two inches back and the trailer starts to fishtail around 50mph. When it is all the way forward it is still perfectly stable at 70mph.
My old OEM steel trailer is pretty flexy, and having the bow snugly in the block reduces some of the pole tongue's vertical deflection, which manifests itself as porpoising.

What I should do, of course, is scab another 3x3x3/16" tube under the original and weld the long joints to increase the vertical stiffness by just over 5-1/2 times, and the lateral stiffness by a factor of 2.

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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by Be Free » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:57 am

Tomfoolery wrote:
Be Free wrote:
kurz wrote:Why you people care about the 2inch space? Does not harm the boat at all???!!!!!
It does not matter to the boat at all. There is still plenty of support even if it is not all the way forward. For me it is a matter of stability at highway speeds. Two inches back and the trailer starts to fishtail around 50mph. When it is all the way forward it is still perfectly stable at 70mph.
My old OEM steel trailer is pretty flexy, and having the bow snugly in the block reduces some of the pole tongue's vertical deflection, which manifests itself as porpoising.

What I should do, of course, is scab another 3x3x3/16" tube under the original and weld the long joints to increase the vertical stiffness by just over 5-1/2 times, and the lateral stiffness by a factor of 2.
I probably should have mentioned that what I'm experiencing is, to some extent, specific to my trailer and boat. I'm pulling a fairly heavily loaded X on a dual axle Magic Tilt aluminum trailer. YMMV

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Sumner
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by Sumner » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:31 pm

Be Free wrote:
kurz wrote:Why you people care about the 2inch space? Does not harm the boat at all???!!!!!
It does not matter to the boat at all. There is still plenty of support even if it is not all the way forward. For me it is a matter of stability at highway speeds. Two inches back and the trailer starts to fishtail around 50mph. When it is all the way forward it is still perfectly stable at 70mph.
I've had different situations with different trailers where sometimes moving less than 100 lbs. forward stopped fishtailing and such. I didn't like the boat a couple inches back as on bad roads it would hobby-horse up and down on the trailer. The boat has gone from Utah to Canada and Florida a couple times and I like it riding stable on the trailer and the trailer not fishtailing at any speed up or down hill, especially down hill.

The second axle and disc brakes was a big improvement,

Sumner

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1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

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kurz
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Re: How do I pull further onto the trailer?

Post by kurz » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:52 am

If you change the trailer it would probably be the best to make the bow stopper not weldet.
I had to change all for EU regulations. I still have the Mac bow stopper but I can move it - the screw it.

The factory style with the :macm: is not good in every days use.

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