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Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:30 pm
by miamistyle
The 22' :tat22: is not a gamble at all.

Look at International Marine who make the West Wight Potter, they recently started making the voyager 20. Because their customers were asking for a slightly larger boat.

I had a macgregor 26s and sold it for two reasons: 1) I wanted the ability to go faster and 2) I had actually believed the Tattoo 22 :tat22: would be available soon. For me the 22 footer is the sweet spot. I know I am not alone.

They will sell a bunch of them :tat22: once people actually see them in the water doing everything the Potter and Voyager do....... only better. :D

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:09 am
by dlandersson
I am under the impression that the hull speed of a 26S/26D is going to be greater than a 22. :?
miamistyle wrote:The 22' :tat22: is not a gamble at all.

Look at International Marine who make the West Wight Potter, they recently started making the voyager 20. Because their customers were asking for a slightly larger boat.

I had a macgregor 26s and sold it for two reasons: 1) I wanted the ability to go faster and 2) I had actually believed the Tattoo 22 :tat22: would be available soon. For me the 22 footer is the sweet spot. I know I am not alone.

They will sell a bunch of them :tat22: once people actually see them in the water doing everything the Potter and Voyager do....... only better. :D

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:06 am
by miamistyle
dlandersson wrote:I am under the impression that the hull speed of a 26S/26D is going to be greater than a 22. :?
You are probably right about the hull speed. :cry:

That's where 40 horses and the ability to get above hull speed come in real handy. 8)

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:43 am
by RobertB
Hull speed is a function of the waterline length: hull speed in knots equals 1.34 times the square root of the waterline length in feet (HS = 1.34 x √LWL).
To get a hull speed of 22 knots you need a ship 270 feet long - that is about the size of the Star of India.
Planing speed is much higher since you are no longer displacing water - but power requirements are much higher.

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:54 am
by BOAT
Robert,

Can you please calculate the hull speed of the 26M for me? I do not know the waterline length.

Thanks
m

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:02 pm
by Tomfoolery
BOAT wrote:I do not know the waterline length.
23'-2", which equals 23.17'.

6.45 kts.

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:03 pm
by RobertB
26M waterline length is 23'2". Hull speed is 6.45 knots/7.42 mph

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:25 pm
by BOAT
RobertB wrote:26M waterline length is 23'2". Hull speed is 6.45 knots/7.42 mph
Okay, thanks Robert, that explains why the boat jumps up on 6 knots so quickly every time the wind gets a little over 8 knots. So running the GPS at 6 knots consistently over a long time is not really a big deal.

The pacific winds will blow a very steady 11 knots over here every afternoon for 6 hours straight between 12 and 6 PM. It's common for 'boat' to hold at about 6 knots for hours on end during that time. Thanks to you I now know why. All this time I thought the hull speed was closer to 5.9 to 6 knots. I guess the bow rake is not as steep as I figured, I knew the transom was flat, but I think I miscalculated the bow rake. The waterline is longer than I guessed.

I suppose I will need to be pushing for a little more speed - I'm not going as fast as I should. I get over 6 in spurts but I would like to HOLD at 6.5 for a good hour in 11 knot wind. I need to makes some improvements.

thanks :)

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:42 pm
by seahouse
BOAT - Note that the LWL calculation, an estimate, is only one factor among many that influence hull speed, and it is just a lay person's rule of thumb. So the actual hull speed could vary considerably from that one number. Don't put too much value in it. :wink:

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:16 pm
by beene
In theory... :P

G

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:24 pm
by mastreb
While it's still an excellent rule of thumb, you should also note that the 1.34 factor is not a physical constant of the universe, it's an empirical average formulated over a century ago from hull forms available then. The factor for my 38' boat is 1.51. A semi-planing hull should have a higher factor than 1.34 as well, but 6.5 knots does seem to be about the sailing maximum for the 26M. Based on fuel usage calculations with the outboard and position of the bow wave, I think the actual hull speed for the 26M is closer to 7 knots--but I'll be damned if I can consistently get their under sail.

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:40 pm
by mastreb
BOAT makes a lot of good points about the market for a trailerable sailboat. I've got a few younger friends interested in sailing, but a considerable portion of my friends simply have no interest.

It's a real shame, because I love the concept. Were I to attempt to built a sailboat business, I'd build a hull form very similar to the 26M that could be used in the ways we've all discussed on this forum.

I posted some thoughts on what I'd do in this thread: http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... 73#p301773

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:47 am
by BOAT
Matt, if the hull speed is 7 knots why can't I hold that speed in a 12 knot wind? I can get there real fast but every 10 or 20 seconds it drops down to 6-1/2 and then shoots back up to 7 for a little bit and then just drops back down to 6-1/2. It's driving me crazy! :| What the heck am I doing wrong?? It's obvious the boat will do 7 knots (if it could not do 7 it would not DO 7!!) so why can't I stay there?? :| :|

Does anyone have a spinnaker or asym? What do you guys get downwind in a hard blow? (I bet that's the problem - I bet the boat needs a kite and a downwind run to get a steady 7 knots - is that it?)

Does anyone run a kite? What's your speed?

I'm just saying that if your gonna update molds or redo the boat or resurrect it I would hope for a new sail plan to get me to 7 knots on the log so I can better judge my cruising ETAs. When you make a plan for anything more than two days of travel it makes a big difference.

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:55 am
by K9Kampers
BOAT wrote: ...so I can better judge my cruising ETAs. When you make a plan for anything more than two days of travel it makes a big difference.
For the kind of boats these are and the sailing they're designed for, what's the difference if your ETA is off by 30 minutes or so?

Re: Tattoo 26 Production Suspended, factory relocating

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:24 am
by BOAT
K9Kampers wrote:
BOAT wrote: ...so I can better judge my cruising ETAs. When you make a plan for anything more than two days of travel it makes a big difference.
For the kind of boats these are and the sailing they're designed for, what's the difference if your ETA is off by 30 minutes or so?
Sailing into a strange port in the dark would be one reason. Estimating my position for a plot off the sun and horizon would be another - (to do that I need to guess where I am not), I dunno, I guess my brain is still stuck in the 70's, huh? All that stuff is not really important anymore is it.

I keep forgetting that I don't need to rely on my charts anymore. Just old fashioned thinking on my part :( I need to forget about that stuff. The only thing I have been using my chartplotter for is getting my speed. I really need to get up to date.

The number one thing I am always forgetting is that big motor on the back - I use it so seldom that I totally forget I can make up a full hours worth of sail travel in less than 15 minutes! (DUH!) :(