How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
- opie
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How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
Yesterday the winds picked up to about 7 kts and I tried my usual best to tack upwind on the lake. I recorded my progress. As you can see, my average tack to a close haul was not really all that close. It only got me to between 75 to 80 degrees into the wind. I hear that average boat can get 45 degrees into the wind and a racing boat can get to 35 degrees on a close haul. In the past 3 years I looked up at the wind arrow and was feeling more warm and fuzzy than I should because apparent wind gave me the illusion that I was 45 degrees to the wind but I was not even close all those times in actuality. That is why I Google Earth'd yesterday to see what I was really doing. (I added red lines...)
This is not a slam on my great MacX, since it is so useful in so many ways. I just want to get the most out of it. I was using my 150% foresail and my mainsail. I used 100% CB on the left series and 75% CB on the right series. (And I know enough to use little CB with main alone and most CB with the foresail alone.) What I am wondering is if any of you racers can give a hint as to how to get the closest to the wind on a close haul, or is 75 degrees about all she can do?
This is not a slam on my great MacX, since it is so useful in so many ways. I just want to get the most out of it. I was using my 150% foresail and my mainsail. I used 100% CB on the left series and 75% CB on the right series. (And I know enough to use little CB with main alone and most CB with the foresail alone.) What I am wondering is if any of you racers can give a hint as to how to get the closest to the wind on a close haul, or is 75 degrees about all she can do?
- vkmaynard
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Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
That's a Mac.
Use the jib. Massive improvement. Also have you tune your rig where the forestay turnbuckle is touching on the inside?
Victor
Use the jib. Massive improvement. Also have you tune your rig where the forestay turnbuckle is touching on the inside?
Victor
- Scott
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Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
First observation, Just before both tacking excersizes I notice you are pretty tight into the wind. Were you motoring?
A few things to check. Rig tuning and mast rake. Asssuming those items are optimum or near for upwind performance some discussion re: finding the high point on your boat.
With a bunch of lake to play with start on a broad reach pointed up a little. Loosen your main and jib sheet until you get some luffing. Just a little. Pull in the jib first (until luffing just ceases) then the main. (As i know you have a GPS) Using GPS keeping the slot about the same ratio, sheet in both a little at a time until your speed begins to fall off. This will give you the point that you stall your lift on your sails. It will also coincide with your tell tales reversing.
Keep doing this at progressively higher points of sail. Stay shy of this stall point the higher you point into irons as the closer you come to the eye the greater the stalling effect and subsequent falling off will be. As I said this will give you the highest point with the sail set up you have hoisted.
A second solution would be to fly a regular jib when you know you will be tacking a bunch as you will have less belly in the sail than a genny and be able to point a good deal higher.
Some further pointing performance can be gained by managing sail shape as well. If you have stock Doyles and no sail control mods you are limited to halyard tension, outhaul and leech cord. flatten the sail and dont sheet too tightly too quickly.
A few things to check. Rig tuning and mast rake. Asssuming those items are optimum or near for upwind performance some discussion re: finding the high point on your boat.
With a bunch of lake to play with start on a broad reach pointed up a little. Loosen your main and jib sheet until you get some luffing. Just a little. Pull in the jib first (until luffing just ceases) then the main. (As i know you have a GPS) Using GPS keeping the slot about the same ratio, sheet in both a little at a time until your speed begins to fall off. This will give you the point that you stall your lift on your sails. It will also coincide with your tell tales reversing.
Keep doing this at progressively higher points of sail. Stay shy of this stall point the higher you point into irons as the closer you come to the eye the greater the stalling effect and subsequent falling off will be. As I said this will give you the highest point with the sail set up you have hoisted.
A second solution would be to fly a regular jib when you know you will be tacking a bunch as you will have less belly in the sail than a genny and be able to point a good deal higher.
Some further pointing performance can be gained by managing sail shape as well. If you have stock Doyles and no sail control mods you are limited to halyard tension, outhaul and leech cord. flatten the sail and dont sheet too tightly too quickly.
- opie
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Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
Thanks, VK. I will try regular jib next time. I was thinking light wind = 150 genoa, but I was wrong it seems. And Scott, I will have to write all your comments down and take those notes with me next time I get out. Thanks...
- ralphk
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Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
Tremendous Graphic! Thanks for posting this Opie.
Hundreds / maybe thousands of Mac skippers are collectively nodding in front of their computers!
In addition to the rig tuning suggestions that are well documented, I would add;
- add a boom vang.
In light to medium winds, one person can hold the end of the boom closer to the centerline and mimick where a traveller would like to position the boom.
The crew then tightens the vang to that point.
- Motorsail
After 6 years, I have accepted the notion that it's ok to cheat.
If we have to make some upwind progress, perhaps because there's a destination point,
I often start the outboard and have it thrust quietly along at idle speed.
We probably add 10-15 deg to wind like this. (plus a knot and a half waterspeed)
Tacks a cleaner too - no sloppy sideslip
Hakuna Matata
'97X
Hundreds / maybe thousands of Mac skippers are collectively nodding in front of their computers!
In addition to the rig tuning suggestions that are well documented, I would add;
- add a boom vang.
In light to medium winds, one person can hold the end of the boom closer to the centerline and mimick where a traveller would like to position the boom.
The crew then tightens the vang to that point.
- Motorsail
After 6 years, I have accepted the notion that it's ok to cheat.
If we have to make some upwind progress, perhaps because there's a destination point,
I often start the outboard and have it thrust quietly along at idle speed.
We probably add 10-15 deg to wind like this. (plus a knot and a half waterspeed)
Tacks a cleaner too - no sloppy sideslip
Hakuna Matata
'97X
- c130king
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Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
I've been fooled by the pesky "apparent" wind before as well. Look up at the wind vanes and I am cooking along at 45 degrees or possibly even less...what a great sailor I am to sail so tight to the wind.
Then go look at the bread crumb trail on my GPS...stupid thing must be broke as it shows I am only doing like 60 degrees at best.
But I was having a blast.
Ahhhh...memories.
Cheers,
Jim
Then go look at the bread crumb trail on my GPS...stupid thing must be broke as it shows I am only doing like 60 degrees at best.
But I was having a blast.
Ahhhh...memories.
Cheers,
Jim
- bscott
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Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
You did an excellent bit of sailing to accomplish so many tacks in so little wind, especially with a 150. 7kts is a wind speed that is boarder line between eased sails or hardened up sails. The 150 is not a good pointing sail as you will have a hard time maneuvering through the tack so you will have to fall off to a broader reach to gain speed = 60 degs.
Whenever I approach a narrow place with cliffs or hills in low wind, I too cheat--actually, I cheat in heavy wind too.
Bob
Whenever I approach a narrow place with cliffs or hills in low wind, I too cheat--actually, I cheat in heavy wind too.
Bob
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Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
sorry,
with that kind of shoreline/topography, and low windspeeds......
what makes you think that wind was anything close to uniformly from one direction?
I think you did fairly well with a genny.
with that kind of shoreline/topography, and low windspeeds......
what makes you think that wind was anything close to uniformly from one direction?
I think you did fairly well with a genny.
Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
The comments on the Genny are good.
In addition sailing less than the max at low wind, you'll increase speed which results in far less CB slippage on the and a better GPS track.
In addition sailing less than the max at low wind, you'll increase speed which results in far less CB slippage on the and a better GPS track.
- Duane Dunn, Allegro
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Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
Mac + Upwind = Iron Genny, you'll win every race.
You will blow by many types of boats under sail on a reach or run however. We've rolled 40 footers down wind.
You will blow by many types of boats under sail on a reach or run however. We've rolled 40 footers down wind.
- Rick Westlake
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Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
I was asking that question myself, yesterday afternoon, making perhaps 110 degree tacks in the Chesapeake Bay. The wind had come up and I felt like I was doing a balancing act, with the gusts laying me over so I'd have to spill, then fill ... Found out later that the airport three miles away was reporting winds at 15 gusting to 25.
Seems to me the Mac has more in common with a big sailing dinghy than with other "proper" sailboats its size. It is quite tender, and the centerboard (or daggerboard, depending on your particular boat) gives a lot less "grip" than a longer fin keel. Plus there isn't any weight to it; all the ballast is up in the hull, and in my X it's all water.
Take a look at the underbody of a Catalina 27. That fin is 3150 pounds of lead, and it's about as long as it is wide. That is a lot of "fin" surface, probably more than twice the size of our "board;" it's all ballast, and the keel alone weighs more than twice as much as all our boats' water ballast. It's heavier but it's stiffer, and it'll give up less leeway close-hauled.
On the other hand, the X will keep ghosting along in less wind; and running before a breath after the beam, we can sometimes hand out a surprise to the bigger, heavier boats around us. It's kind of neat when the Bay turns into a millpond, and you've still got the "chuckle" of the water passing your transom.
And there are two places where the Mac motorsailers really shine - when you "get up in a hurry" and take off with that big engine, and when you take down the mast and trailer the boat to some lake where you're the only sailboat. I'm not sure you even can trailer a Catalina 27, except maybe with a very specialized transporter - that keel - and what about the mast?
Our Macs do a great job and a difficult one - light enough to trailer easily, big enough to vacation aboard, pretty decent sailboats and decent power-boats as well. If they're not as weatherly as something else, or not as quick around the buoys, or they don't point as crisply, look at what they CAN do! I have my dream of someday owning a big, broad-shouldered ocean cruiser, but the skills and capabilities and comforts I build with my Mac will determine whether or not I'll dare bring that dream to come true. Meanwhile, I'm having a lot of fun, stretching my limits, and getting to be a better sailor, all for half or less of what I'd pay for a "saltier" sailboat that had to live at a slip!
Enjoy yourself - and if you have to, "enjoy yourself ANYWAYS."
Seems to me the Mac has more in common with a big sailing dinghy than with other "proper" sailboats its size. It is quite tender, and the centerboard (or daggerboard, depending on your particular boat) gives a lot less "grip" than a longer fin keel. Plus there isn't any weight to it; all the ballast is up in the hull, and in my X it's all water.
Take a look at the underbody of a Catalina 27. That fin is 3150 pounds of lead, and it's about as long as it is wide. That is a lot of "fin" surface, probably more than twice the size of our "board;" it's all ballast, and the keel alone weighs more than twice as much as all our boats' water ballast. It's heavier but it's stiffer, and it'll give up less leeway close-hauled.
On the other hand, the X will keep ghosting along in less wind; and running before a breath after the beam, we can sometimes hand out a surprise to the bigger, heavier boats around us. It's kind of neat when the Bay turns into a millpond, and you've still got the "chuckle" of the water passing your transom.
And there are two places where the Mac motorsailers really shine - when you "get up in a hurry" and take off with that big engine, and when you take down the mast and trailer the boat to some lake where you're the only sailboat. I'm not sure you even can trailer a Catalina 27, except maybe with a very specialized transporter - that keel - and what about the mast?
Our Macs do a great job and a difficult one - light enough to trailer easily, big enough to vacation aboard, pretty decent sailboats and decent power-boats as well. If they're not as weatherly as something else, or not as quick around the buoys, or they don't point as crisply, look at what they CAN do! I have my dream of someday owning a big, broad-shouldered ocean cruiser, but the skills and capabilities and comforts I build with my Mac will determine whether or not I'll dare bring that dream to come true. Meanwhile, I'm having a lot of fun, stretching my limits, and getting to be a better sailor, all for half or less of what I'd pay for a "saltier" sailboat that had to live at a slip!
Enjoy yourself - and if you have to, "enjoy yourself ANYWAYS."
Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
Genoa sheets outside the shrouds. Working jib sheets inside the shrouds and so can be sheeted in tighter, and so allows laying a course closer to windward before luffing.
Also, as mentioned, the ultimate aid to sailing progress to windward is the motor. Indeed I believe some classic motorsailors went to windward only with the aid of the motor.
Ron
Also, as mentioned, the ultimate aid to sailing progress to windward is the motor. Indeed I believe some classic motorsailors went to windward only with the aid of the motor.
Ron
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Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
On my 1998 I have found that sometimes it's best to only use the main. The speed is lower but you can get pretty close to the wind and and have a shorter time to your destination. Last year I remember leaving a 40' hunter going upwind with just my main. He might not have known we were racing but it was interesting to leave him behind. It does depend on the wind speed but next time get the main as tight as you can and see what happens.
- opie
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Re: How can the Mac 26X sail close hauled better?
Riva,
Please let us know how much CB you have down while you are using the main only. I find that I can not tack with more than 8 inches of CB line down, that gives about 33% of board down.... By using partial CB the center of effort moves back enough to make a tack. With full CB and using main only, I can not do a thing. What do you find?
Please let us know how much CB you have down while you are using the main only. I find that I can not tack with more than 8 inches of CB line down, that gives about 33% of board down.... By using partial CB the center of effort moves back enough to make a tack. With full CB and using main only, I can not do a thing. What do you find?