several newbie questions

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whgoffrn
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several newbie questions

Post by whgoffrn » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:16 pm

1 what is the maximum heel a mac can have without doing damage using just a 100jib on a roller furler..... the reason im asking is I went out last week in some moderately fast wind 20-25mph winds and I did not put the main up as I single hand mostly and once the wind picked up I dropped the main all together since I don't have the halyard to main led aft and its just too hard to do single handed with no one steering in wind that fast.... so I used the jib on roller as it easily can be rolled up... well at 20-25 mph it didn't heel the boat over more than 15-20 degrees with just one sail up.. so I let the jib out all the way as it was making great speed and not too excessive of a heel..however when I got home I noticed both spreader bars are now bent somewhat... and I sure don't remember doing that while raising it?? I guess it could have been done earlier but im fairly confident it somehow got bent while sailing..... or I just cant figure out any other way that they could have been bent other than the mast being excessively being bent by the force the top of the jib had on the top of the mast in combination with maybe not having the side stays tight enough?? no idea how they could have gotten bent really....the spreaders got bent slightly up towards the top of the mast

2 blue water yachts says for 400 bucks they have a kit that can run my lines aft as well as extra reefing points and single line reefing so I can steer while reefing main..... but they need me to mail them my sail with about a month turn around time .....anyone in florida know of place that can have a quicker turn around time..... im seeing where my main sail only gets used on very very calm days because when the wind picks up I cant make it up by the mast unhook the halyard in time before the boat turns side ways into the wind in a blow..........anyone have any suggestions??

3 I also think part of my error and why my spreaders bent may have been the side stays way too loose...I only have one adjustable tension on the rear stay that I loosen up to raise the mast and tighten once mast is up...and ive always felt the side stays just seemed way too loose....so I think I may put adjustables on the sides now as well and maybe a guage....just curious how many lbs of tension do most of you all put on the stays?

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mastreb
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Re: several newbie questions

Post by mastreb » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:06 am

All of your suspicions are correct: You bent the spreaders because your stays were too loose and it shock loaded them.

The stays should "feel tight"--that's about it. Technically 300 lbs. is kind of the standard, but the leeward stay should be just a bit loose when you're heeled over.

I'd replace your spreaders with carbon tubes. The factory tubes are way too thin in my opinion, and bend easily with any kind of stress. Do a search on carbon fiber spreader tubes on this forum and you'l find all the info you need. Costs <$100.

There are a lot of ways to take the halyard back to the cockpit. I did it with just a shackle block connected to the mast foot, a cheek-block on a track-slide on the gunnel top tracks, and the halyard taken back to the port side winches and cam-cleat. With the stock bolt-roped main, you'll also need a spin-lock mainsail feeder and a downhaul rope or looped halyard. I use EZ cleats on the gunnel tracks for the jib-sheets so that was open. I use the other cabin-top winch and cleat to manage the daggerboard depth, which I vary for different points of sail.

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RussMT
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Re: several newbie questions

Post by RussMT » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:05 pm

whgoffrn wrote:1 what is the maximum heel a mac can have without doing damage using just a 100jib on a roller furler..... the reason im asking is I went out last week in some moderately fast wind 20-25mph winds and I did not put the main up as I single hand mostly and once the wind picked up I dropped the main all together since I don't have the halyard to main led aft and its just too hard to do single handed with no one steering in wind that fast.... so I used the jib on roller as it easily can be rolled up... well at 20-25 mph it didn't heel the boat over more than 15-20 degrees with just one sail up.. so I let the jib out all the way as it was making great speed and not too excessive of a heel..however when I got home I noticed both spreader bars are now bent somewhat... and I sure don't remember doing that while raising it?? I guess it could have been done earlier but im fairly confident it somehow got bent while sailing..... or I just cant figure out any other way that they could have been bent other than the mast being excessively being bent by the force the top of the jib had on the top of the mast in combination with maybe not having the side stays tight enough?? no idea how they could have gotten bent really....the spreaders got bent slightly up towards the top of the mast
The degree of heel has no affect on damage. In fact, it would be hard to damage the boat from heeling. Just look at Doug in Galactica. He sails that thing at 45 degree all the time.
Honestly, I don't think you can bend the spreaders this unless you really have a lot of slack in the stays. A LOT of slack.
2 blue water yachts says for 400 bucks they have a kit that can run my lines aft as well as extra reefing points and single line reefing so I can steer while reefing main..... but they need me to mail them my sail with about a month turn around time .....anyone in florida know of place that can have a quicker turn around time..... im seeing where my main sail only gets used on very very calm days because when the wind picks up I cant make it up by the mast unhook the halyard in time before the boat turns side ways into the wind in a blow..........anyone have any suggestions??
Honestly, I don't want to reef out on the open water. The time to reef is before you go out. If I get into that situation where it's time to reef, I turn to a protected place and do it out of the wind.
I have the BWY reef system and never used it. To do it right, you still need to tie the reef points around the boom. So I don't see it as an answer to your situation.
The lines led aft is okay. It does allow me to raise the main from the cockpit, but that's not a big deal because I have to go up to take it down. (until I install a looped halyard). You can't do it from behind the wheel, so you still need to go around to handle the lines.
You really need to learn about reefing systems and how and if they would do what you want. For more money, there are roller reefing mains.
3 I also think part of my error and why my spreaders bent may have been the side stays way too loose...I only have one adjustable tension on the rear stay that I loosen up to raise the mast and tighten once mast is up...and ive always felt the side stays just seemed way too loose....so I think I may put adjustables on the sides now as well and maybe a guage....just curious how many lbs of tension do most of you all put on the stays?
My guess is you bent the spreaders on the trailer. That's how most of us have bent 'em. And bending up is the natural way they like to bend because they can't bend down because of the stay. Easy to replace from standard hardware store Al tube. Some folks have inserted dowels to stiffen them. Most of us have bent them at least once.

The rigging on our boats is pretty thin. You can't get them guitar string tight. The mast bends when you tighten them too much. They definitely should not be wobbly loose. Should feel somewhat tight but not so much as the mast begins to bend. "Fine tune" adjustment can be made at the headstay.
I NEVER remove the side stays. Been the same adjustment since I bought the boat. When taking down the mast, let them fall down and bungee them up later.

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RussMT
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Re: several newbie questions

Post by RussMT » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:11 pm

This is Jim's looped main halyard
http://vid132.photobucket.com/albums/q1 ... sDec09.mp4

I'm doing this next year. Raise/lower the main from cockpit.
Doesn't address reefing. Reefing is a totally different beast.

C Buchs
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Re: several newbie questions

Post by C Buchs » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:36 pm

RussMT wrote:This is Jim's looped main halyard
http://vid132.photobucket.com/albums/q1 ... sDec09.mp4

I'm doing this next year. Raise/lower the main from cockpit.
Doesn't address reefing. Reefing is a totally different beast.
I, at least, need that lazy jacks system. My main comes down easily, but it takes someone up on deck to tie it down and someone at the wheel to keep us headed into the wind. We haven't been out with very high winds, but when we are it will be a lot more scary.

Jeff

whgoffrn
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Re: several newbie questions

Post by whgoffrn » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:01 pm

Thanks for the replies and keep them coming ....yeah I guess reefing isnt as necessary as getting the main up or down ...I sail on the Indian river around cape Canaveral where weather cant be predicted by the best ...winds will be 3-4mph then 50-60 out of nowhere ...so running to protection isn't an option ... The sails already had the slides put on them so no bolt.... Does anyone have any pics of how it looks to have the halyard and down haul lead aft? I'm not exactly sure how to go about doing this

marcopolo173
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Re: several newbie questions

Post by marcopolo173 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:07 am

Couple of different methods shown on this thread

Hope this helps, Marc

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... =8&t=17434

whgoffrn
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Re: several newbie questions

Post by whgoffrn » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:19 pm

i think i just realized im missing a vital piece in figuring out how im going to run lines to cockpit...single line or double line reefing...i need a mastgate for a 26x i forgot i have to release the slide stop to reef anyways so without a mast gate it wont matter anyways....may be calling bwy tomorrow to see what or if they have anything

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