how to rig a storm jib ?

A forum for discussion of how to rig and tune your boat or kicker to achieve the best sailing performance.

Moderators: Catigale, Paul S, Heath_Mod, beene, Hamin' X, kmclemore, tangentair

Post Reply
bonati
Just Enlisted
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:00 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Denia , Spanish Mediterranean

how to rig a storm jib ?

Post by bonati » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:51 am

My impression and very extended opinion is that a partially furled genoa is not an adequate storm jib as 1) fabric is not particularly strong 2) sail effect center gets much too high .

As new owner of an MG26X , my question is ; how do ( any of ) you have (or would )install an storm jib ?

first idea was an inner forestay attached to the padeye behind the anchor box ; seems to be strong as it is used to lower and raise the must , but a bit too far from the bow?...

another idea is to have a wrapped sail around the furled genoa , but where to attach it in the botton end?


thks in advance for your ideas ...

User avatar
Cougar
Engineer
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:02 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Leeuwarden, Netherlands

Re: how to rig an storm jib ?

Post by Cougar » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:17 am

First of all, but you probably heard that before, you should not be in a stormy situation with an :macx: , or any Mac. That said, it's true that sailing performance is compromised when the genoa is partly furled. But do you really worry about sailing performance under those conditions? In my experience strong winds really make up for the loss of optimal sail shape. But then again, if you really want to be prepared for the hopefully rare occasion, I would opt for a storm jib that will wrap around the furled headsail, eliminating the need for a separate headstay. I think I've seen it advertised on the internet once. Bottom attachement could be one of the bow cleats or the existing attachment eye that holds the furler.

User avatar
kadet
Admiral
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:51 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Brisbane, Australia. 2008M "Wicked Wave" Yamaha T60

Re: how to rig an storm jib ?

Post by kadet » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:40 am

Lower motor, attach steering arm, put key in ignition, start iron genny.

As said these boats do not do well in storms under any type of sail configuration, having been caught out in a thunderstorms the only tactic I found to work was to motor slowly into the oncoming wind with no sails up.

Search thunderstorms in the forum this has been discussed in some detail.

User avatar
dlandersson
Admiral
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:00 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Chicago metro, USA

Re: how to rig an storm jib ?

Post by dlandersson » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:52 am

Bow cleat for the lower end. These boats are really not for storms. Fire up your outboard and head for shore. 8)
bonati wrote:My impression and very extended opinion is that a partially furled genoa is not an adequate storm jib as 1) fabric is not particularly strong 2) sail effect center gets much too high .

As new owner of an MG26X , my question is ; how do ( any of ) you have (or would )install an storm jib ?

first idea was an inner forestay attached to the padeye behind the anchor box ; seems to be strong as it is used to lower and raise the must , but a bit too far from the bow?...

another idea is to have a wrapped sail around the furled genoa , but where to attach it in the botton end?


thks in advance for your ideas ...

paul I
First Officer
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:43 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Niagara Falls, NY 2000 26X w/Honda BF50 "NoneShallPass"

Re: how to rig an storm jib ?

Post by paul I » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:35 am

bonati wrote:My impression and very extended opinion is that a partially furled genoa is not an adequate storm jib as 1) fabric is not particularly strong 2) sail effect center gets much too high.
If I were ever caught out in a storm that was bad enough where I felt the fabric of my partially furled genoa wasn't strong enough, the thought of putting out any kind of sail would be non-existent in my mind. Like the man said, fire up the motor and head home.

bonati
Just Enlisted
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:00 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Denia , Spanish Mediterranean

Re: how to rig an storm jib ?

Post by bonati » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:28 am

Well , seems you all concur on that engine is the best solution ... so I do ,and even more after your opinions .. I am just thinking on possible occasions when I am far from shore or it is difficult to reach the harbour due to bad sea at entrance or other similar cases , and reefing of mainsail ( or no mainsail) and small jib keeps you in control . Many years ago ( when I sailed more frequently) I had a 22 feet sailboat , also with centerboard ( no furler , just convencional clips in jib and the storm jib proved useful in this spanish mediterranean sea..

User avatar
Cougar
Engineer
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:02 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Leeuwarden, Netherlands

Re: how to rig an storm jib ?

Post by Cougar » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:39 am

I see your point. I don't have any experience with the Spanish Med, but I do on the Croatian Adriatic. There are these occasions where waves can get so steep and short that motoring becomes almost impossible because of cavitation. It's something you'll want to avoid, but you always have to be prepared for the unexpected. So maybe the idea of a storm jib is not so bad after all.Just hope you'll never need it. :)

User avatar
yukonbob
Admiral
Posts: 1881
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:54 pm
Sailboat: Other
Location: Whitehorse Yukon

Re: how to rig an storm jib ?

Post by yukonbob » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:36 am

Just an FYI as peoples interpretation of wind/wave and sea state varies drastically
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/beaufort.html

paul I
First Officer
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:43 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Niagara Falls, NY 2000 26X w/Honda BF50 "NoneShallPass"

Re: how to rig an storm jib ?

Post by paul I » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:15 pm

Cougar wrote:I see your point. I don't have any experience with the Spanish Med, but I do on the Croatian Adriatic. There are these occasions where waves can get so steep and short that motoring becomes almost impossible because of cavitation. It's something you'll want to avoid, but you always have to be prepared for the unexpected. So maybe the idea of a storm jib is not so bad after all.Just hope you'll never need it. :)
But the point is, that if this is something you hope you'll never need, why go through this much trouble. There is a furled genoa available that will serve the purpose, maybe not a perfect fit for the application, but none the less it is usable as is.

User avatar
RussMT
Admiral
Posts: 5527
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:01 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Bozeman, Montana "Luna Azul" 2008 M 70hp Suzi

Re: how to rig an storm jib ?

Post by RussMT » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:51 pm

I agree with the comments above. This boat is not meant for this weather.

Also agree that a furled genoa works fine. Keep it small and it will work. I can't imagine a situation where winds are that strong that I'd want to be up on this fore deck rigging a storm jib. Control it from the safety of the cockpit.
If winds are too high for a small genny, you shouldn't have any cloth out there, fire up the motor and get to shelter. At that point, you should be thinking sea anchor and waiting the storm out.

User avatar
yukonbob
Admiral
Posts: 1881
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:54 pm
Sailboat: Other
Location: Whitehorse Yukon

Re: how to rig a storm jib ?

Post by yukonbob » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:16 pm

If those are the prevailing conditions of where you sail, maybe consider moving to a working jib instead. That'll give you better sail shape when furled compared to a genoa

User avatar
Wind Chime
Captain
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:30 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada. 2000-26X, Suzuki-50hp, 8' Walker-Bay tender (with sailkit)
Contact:

Re: how to rig an storm jib ?

Post by Wind Chime » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:19 pm

My 2 cents:

I think the most important thing about heavy weather sailing is confidence. Taking clear and decisive action based on your experience and knowledge, and that's a little different for everyone and in different conditions. But what's the same is the fundamentals of "boat balance". The balance of heeling (COE - above the waterline, against the CLR - below the waterline), and balance fore and aft of the mast (weather and lee helm).

I was taught that the best way to balance a boat in high winds (after twisting and spilling is no longer effective) is reducing the sail area in a controlled manner that; (a) lowers the COE down to the deck; and (b) keeps the COE amidships (close to the mast fore and aft).

Furling a genoa (without luff pads) creates a poor sail shape but in high winds sails are to be flatted anyway, it also takes the COE before the mast higher off the deck, which is counter productive to best practice. So a storm jib makes theoretical sense, but is not as practical as furling a jib/genoa, plus it requires one to go on deck to hoist the storm jib which increases the odds of an accident.

All that said ... I LOVE OUR STORM JIB!! It's GREAT FUN, and to me sailing is about having fun, and being safe.

We have a heavy orange storm-jib with battens that we fly's inside the fore-triangle. The sail has a wire luff, so no need for additional fore-stay. The tack of the sail is attached to the mast raising pad-eye with a 2 foot swivel pennant. The head is hoisted on a halyard and swivel block using the existing bolt hole that attaches to the mast crutch when trailering. The clew and sheets run to the inside tracks (inside the shrouds) and are trimmed with the winches.

Our orange storm jib is about 70% of standard jib, along with a single reef in the main and moderate sea state the boat balances fairly well in 15 to 20-ish knots although maybe a little under powered at times, above 20 kts a double reef flattened main and this sail storm sail creates a lower center of effort so still maintains good balance and enough speed to dig in to the swells - but I rarely stay out past 20. In reality, we have a furling 150% genoa and the smallest I'll furl down to is about 100% and a single reef, then if over heeled too frequently in the gusts I'll go down to storm jib, then double reef - or go home :)

ps
I always use a harness and tether with jack-lines. Going on deck in inclement conditions adds an element of danger compared to furling and reefing from the cockpit.

Image

User avatar
Ixneigh
Admiral
Posts: 1906
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:00 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Key largo Florida

Re: how to rig a storm jib ?

Post by Ixneigh » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:19 pm

I usually have plenty of wind so I nixed the furler. The Hank on jib is usually fine. I have several sizes to choose from. Your going to want a high wind jib for getting somewhere rather then just floating around waiting for the wind to lay down. You can do that with a deeply reefed main. I set a tiny little hobycat jib sometimes. By all means rig a separate stay for a staysail if you have roller furling and think you might be out in those conditions. The partly furled genny is not ideal. Sometimes you are in sheltered water but it's just windy and maybe your course is not to weather. The jib will make the boat faster and easier to handle. Florida bay is a good example. It's all shallow but it might be 20 miles to the next anchorage. With the right sails it's still a fun day on the water.
Your not going to be out in big waves with this boat since that will be uncomfortable and frustrating.
Ix

User avatar
Highlander
Admiral
Posts: 5300
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:25 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Maccutter26M 2008 75HP Merc. 4/S Victoria BC. Can. ' An Hileanto'ir III '
Contact:

Re: how to rig a storm jib ?

Post by Highlander » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:14 pm


User avatar
Seapup
Captain
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:05 am
Location: 2002 26x - Virgina Beach, Va

Re: how to rig a storm jib ?

Post by Seapup » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:15 am

Furling a genoa (without luff pads) creates a poor sail shape but in high winds sails are to be flatted anyway, it also takes the COE before the mast higher off the deck, which is counter productive to best practice. So a storm jib makes theoretical sense, but is not as practical as furling a jib/genoa, plus it requires one to go on deck to hoist the storm jib which increases the odds of an accident.

All that said ... I LOVE OUR STORM JIB!! It's GREAT FUN, and to me sailing is about having fun, and being safe.

We have a heavy orange storm-jib with battens that we fly's inside the fore-triangle. The sail has a wire luff, so no need for additional fore-stay. The tack of the sail is attached to the mast raising pad-eye with a 2 foot swivel pennant. The head is hoisted on a halyard and swivel block using the existing bolt hole that attaches to the mast crutch when trailering. The clew and sheets run to the inside tracks (inside the shrouds) and are trimmed with the winches.

Our orange storm jib is about 70% of standard jib, along with a single reef in the main and moderate sea state the boat balances fairly well in 15 to 20-ish knots although maybe a little under powered at times, above 20 kts a double reef flattened main and this sail storm sail creates a lower center of effort so still maintains good balance and enough speed to dig in to the swells - but I rarely stay out past 20. In reality, we have a furling 150% genoa and the smallest I'll furl down to is about 100% and a single reef, then if over heeled too frequently in the gusts I'll go down to storm jib, then double reef - or go home :)
Windchime is spot on, like him and IX said the right sails make it fun and safe vs an ordeal.

My Only different 2 cents...Before buying a storm jib maybe try a standard 110 jib. The genoa is great if you daysail in and out of the same port and just want to sail around, otherwise I would not recommend it though. I think a lot of the negative armchair opinions about the mac sailing ability stem as a result of it. A 110 and decent main will handle most of what the mac is safe in and still do most of what the genoa does (more effectively too). I would lean to a 110 and assymtrical vs genoa and storm jib most of the time.

If the 110 is still too much (regular winds 20 and up) rather than a true tiny "storm jib" sized for our boats (40 sq ft?) a storm jib off a larger boat is a good sail for normal use IMO. (I use one sized for "storms" on a 7500lb boat that is only 60-70%) It will get more use than a tiny storm jib since you can use it as a normal jib on gusty days as well. They are much different than just a smaller sail. Cut very flat, high clew, and heavy so the boat does not heel in a gust like with a smaller lightweight jib or furled 110. There is a large difference between my "storm" jib and the 110 furled to its size.

A hank on storm jib with a wire, dynmeema, or even double braid line left hanked in it can be used to easily free fly a sail on the mac as long as the luff is a little shorter than the hoist you need. There are multiple ways you can attach it to the boat/mast depending on dimensions and cut of the sail. A spare fiddle block & cleat (mainsheet tackle) clipped to the sail tack and deck can be used to tension the sail easily after its hoisted. Its a small and heavy enough sail that furling is not necessary IMO.

Once budget allows don't forget the mainsail...

Post Reply