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Help with anchor

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:31 pm
by whgoffrn
One of my biggest delimas and one I'm still working on is when its time to anchor and suffer it out in nasty weather .... I live in east central Florida and storms get nasty here quite quickly sometimes if you forget to check radar for an hour a nasty storm will sneak up on you and its right on top of you in 40+ mph winds before you had chance to prepare .... With that thought in mind a d having been caught out in 80mph winds once I went big on anchor selection and got a 35lb mantus... Which has now created another problem ....its very hard to deploy when the boat is rocking besides being heavy its long ...I currently have it sitting in a pvc pipe / holder off the bow but have been reconsidering... It's so heavy and large and with such small bow area to work with I can easily see how one could go over the rail. It's so big and heavy and with the boat rocking its quite dangerous because there's no way to do it with one hand..... I lately have been considering moving the anchor placement back to the side stanchion where I put my grill.....obviously still attached to the bow with say 50-75feet of line and one of those shock absorbers from west marine......anyone every try this method or any thoughts on it? Just looking for a safer way to deploy an anchor that probably is a bit too large for this boat

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:07 pm
by NiceAft
It's not too large for the boat, but maybe too large for its captain. The bigger the hook, the better the staying power.

When deploying the anchor, you just need too let it drop. Then, in storm conditions, let out a rode of ten feet for every one foot of depth. It also is nice to have about thirty feet of chain attached to that anchor.

If thirty-five pounds of anchor is too much to lift and control at the bow, it will also be too much to lift and control at the stern. I don't know what to say other than consider a lighter hook, a second anchor, or start weight lifting at a gym. Sorry for that last remark.Image

Ray

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:41 pm
by Jimmyt
Is it really better to throw out the hook than to reef and sail? Or even fire up the Etec? Even running bare poles with it if you have room?

So far, I've only been out in 25kts gusting to around 30, and I would rather have eaten dirt than throw the hook out in that. At 40 or higher, it seems like the hook would just rip the hardware out of the deck. Not to mention how green I would get if the hook would actually keep her nosed up. Not crazy about watching my toenails chasing my lunch over the rail.

You guys all know better than I do. Will the hardware/boat hold together when anchored in 40+ and big seas?

http://youtu.be/dJF7i5z9lQ4

This was not me, but shot where I normally sail. Weather took a nasty turn during a race, came up quick.

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:59 pm
by NiceAft
Mac's are tougher than most think.

WHGOFFRN says the storms come up quickly. Do they dissipate quickly?

Whether to anchor or reef is determined by the captain, and the captain's experience. That experience is also being able to read the sky. There are no mountains blocking your view on the ocean. Check weather before going, and keep the VHF on at all times. Lastly, remember the difference between a wise captain and a smart captain. A smart captain knows how to get out of situations which a wise captain would not get into in the first place. If weather events are that fast, check weather before departure, and frequently during the trip. Also get experience reefing by practicing on the water.

Ray

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:42 pm
by whgoffrn
Lol nice aft.....while not a power lifter I can lift 35lbs just fine ... It's not even about strength the rails on the bow point frontwards so getting the anchor out means pulling it up and out with both hands.....now imagine doing that in the rain and no hand to hang onto the boat.... As a reference of strength Im 195lb bench press 245 and don't work out a bit....when I do exercise 295-315 ...its about balance and holding 35lbs out straight in front of you pulling it out of the pvc sleeve on the bow with spray in your face....much harder to do than simply picking up 35lbs

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:48 pm
by whgoffrn
And the storms I'm referring to are not storms u want to have any sail up.... 4out of 5 storms are just 30-40 mph which is doable reefed but its that 1 in 5 squall that will capsize you...one "little storm" that was barely a blip on the radar that I nearly missed clocked 93mph gusts...I've personally been caught dead center in a dinghy in 80mph winds..do you really want any sail up in that.... Trust me these storms are no joke.....when u see a storm coming in my area that means get the sails down and anchor asap because there is no guarantee the wind will "only" be 40mph

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:53 pm
by whgoffrn
I've been anchored several times in 50mph winds I just let a lot of line go 75-100 feet in the event it drags it will reset ... Never been a problem yet once the bow is in the wind/waves the aerodynamics of the boat helps and its not pushing against it that hard....I still use one of those heavy duty shock absorbers from west marine so far never had a problem

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:30 am
by NiceAft
Do you have a bow anchor roller?

I know you said the anchor is really big, and I did not just now go back and read the original post, so I am just wondering why you would have to lift the anchor by leaning over the rails?

Are you out of range of NOAA broadcasts on your VHF? I am having a hard time understanding how such windy conditions are catching you off guard. A tether attached to your PFD might be standard equipment in your scenarios. :D

Oh yes, one last question. Is your life insurance paid up :?: :evil: :wink: :D

Ray

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:25 am
by Ixneigh
At fifty pounds I think I have the biggest anchor in daily use on the board.
A bow roller is a must. A windlass is good too. Where I anchor is usually shallow so the waves aren't large.
The reason I have such a large anchor is that I often anchor very close to shore where there is no room to drag. Like other manly activities it is true that size is not the most important thing. Do you know for sure you need a huge anchor? Have you tried a 25 pound with the correct chain and or line length? Bottoms matter so I'm assume you know what you are anchoring in? No hook will hold well in certain bottoms. We have areas in the keys that are as flat as a sidewalk. Other areas have pudding like mud with a thick grassy covering. The anchor appears to hold until the grass tears away.
Maybe a fortress anchor would work for you. It has the biting area of a large anchor but is very light. Many people like them. I've never had the boat in 80 knot winds but I still think I'd feel better under power if I had a good distance from shore to ride it out. Or even lying ahull. With the boat on her side the movement would be less.
Ix

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:20 am
by Tomfoolery
Ixneigh wrote:Maybe a fortress anchor would work for you. It has the biting area of a large anchor but is very light. Many people like them.
I recently started using a Fortress FX-7 (I think), which is the biggest that fits in my anchor locker. It only weighs 4 lb, but it bites into the sand or mud bottoms around here very well, especially when I set it for the steeper fluke angle (soft mud angle). However, it is obviously way too small for the OP's conditions, and I don't even know if they bottom conditions are conducive to a Danforth style fluke anchor. But you can get a lot of holding power from a large(r) Fortress without all the weight.

Having said that, I like the Rocna, Mantus, and Manson Supreme style, and if I had a place to put one, it would be my primary anchor. And a bow roller would be the first thing I'd add. Hanging over the bow rail trying to haul up the anchor without smashing it into the hull is not my idea of fun, especially when it's more than 10kg plus chain. Rocna's web site recommends their 33 lb model for boats up to 46 ft (!) and 8800 lb at one end, and 26 ft and 26,000 lb (!) at the other end, and Rocna claims they size them conservatively for aggressive conditions. I think I would use a smaller anchor of that style, like around 22 lb, as a primary, and perhaps secure the big one either below decks, or off the stern. I had a 22lb Bruce on my 34 ft 12,000 lb Hunter, and while a bit small for that boat, it never dragged. And the new generation anchors seem to have more holding power for their size.

There's no reason you can't deploy off the stern with the rode run to the bow, though retrieval can be problematic without a roller and perhaps windlass. But if storms are that strong and come on that fast, I would think deployment would be my first concern. Once it's over, there's no rush figuring out how best to weigh it.

And if you need an anchor that big, you should be looking into larger bow cleats and solid attachment. A long 3-strand line is an excellent shock absorber, unlike chain. Oversized line is stiffer, and therefore not necessarily the best way to go. I would use 25-30 ft of chain, and have 200 ft of nylon line.

If the water is shallow enough, you could ride out a squall with your big anchor, and dive on it when it's over to see just how deeply it's dug in. If it's only half-way buried, it's probably unnecessarily big. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :D

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:49 pm
by RGF
Whgoffrn - I have the same anchor and because I mostly singlehand I have the Mantus stanchion mount bracket mounted on my radar arch for quick, easy stern deployment with the rode attached at the bow. I drop and retrieve all from the stern. Only go forward if I have to adjust scope. It's an alternative for you but the arch wasn't cheap... :wink:

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:34 pm
by whgoffrn
Do you have a picture of how you have it mounted on the stern ... I'd be interested in seeing how you have yours mounted and then hooked to the bow..... I've also been considering having 3 cables connected to a large d ring from the bow to spread the initial shock when it does grab maybe both cleats and the ring you winch the boat to the trailer along with the shock absorber..... But yeah if you can walk me through how you have yours mounted and at the stern and how you keep the line from the bow to where its mounted without accidents like rope going overboard and into the prop

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:49 pm
by mastreb
Consider deploying your anchor off the stern. It's much much safer to deal with an anchor from the cockpit than at the bow in a storm in terms of handling. The boat also hunts far less when anchored from the stern. The only issue is being pooped from waves coming to the stern of the boat; less of an issue in an M than in an X because of the high bridge-deck.

Anchoring by the stern also allows you to put out a tiny patch of the roller-furling jib to set an anchor sail without extra equipment. Even just a few square inches helps a lot to steady the boat.

I routinely anchor the Mac by the stern after having discovered the technique.

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:07 pm
by kurz
So how you fix the anchor rode at the stern?
One or 2 cleats?

Re: Help with anchor

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:57 pm
by RGF
whgoffrn-am out of town for the Tday holiday but will take pics when I return. Never did a pic hosting site and don't wanna start now. Pm me your email and I will send to you.