please critique my possible future mods

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whgoffrn
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please critique my possible future mods

Post by whgoffrn » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:47 pm

each day growing more and more comfortable with the boat I set my vision to further offshore...namely the Bahamas... with that I try to look at the problems others have had fallen masts, rudders break and engine failures... and try to imagine just what I would do in that instance if I was quite a ways from home and no where near a west marine in the exumas when something like this happened...

1. to attempt to prevent demasting I plan to double up on stays 2 back stays 2 front side stays 1+ on sizes

2. engine failures....im HIGHLY considering selling the 50 and buying two 2 stroke 25hp long shafts.... something I can simply pick up remove from the transom and replace with the other .. or just leave both 25s on ...so I still have 50hp possibly (still tossing around ideas in my head) I rarely ever find flat water to take full advantage of the 50 I have now anyways....the only time my motor comes on is motoring away from the dock and in heavy heavy winds with waves spraying everyone in the cockpit doing hullspeed anyways... I realize a 9.9 probably would push it hull speed but not sure it would in 35kt winds.. although 25 is still semi heavy with a rope I could lift it off the transom if needed

3. rudder failures... I know there is two but with a good drogue I see where it could serve dual purposes ...help if caught in REALLY nasty weather but also it can be used to steer with

I know all the usual others needed epirb plb tethers charts typical safety equipment etc etc.... I know I will do all the above but unsure wether 2x 25hp engines is a good idea....if I chose wrong then I lose quite a bit of money...all the other "investments" are going to be fore peace of mind so wouldn't consider a drogue or epirb as a waste.... but unsure wether switching out the engine is a smart idea and once its done..its done....any input would be appreciated

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yukonbob
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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by yukonbob » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:20 pm

What are your concerns with your current 50? Are they warranted or will you have the same 'worries' with a one or two used 25's? I would invest the money in a small engine or specifically an outboard repair course or at the very least a manual on your engine and spend a bunch of time coin regular maintenance on it. No engine is immune to water in your fuel, a broken timing belt/chain or blown bearings, gaskets, injectors, or any one of a million electrical issues that can occur. Best you can do is be as prepared as possible, keep cool and deal with what you can.

whgoffrn
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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by whgoffrn » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:03 am

My 50 runs fine but just as you stated every engine can have issues come up.... The reason for the 2x25 is I can lift a 25hp engine off the transom by myself.... I cannot get that 50hp off ...if I was out ...way out and had an engine failure I could tie a rope to the little 115lb 25 and store it down below and mount the other....its just one more attempt at trying to negate as much bad luck with planning as you can do.... People have 2-3 chart plotters sails extra props....why not a spare engine on board if you truly don't need the 50hp????

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dlandersson
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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by dlandersson » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:44 am

Make sense to me, I have a spare (Mini-kote). If the 50 is fine, I suggest a smaller (liftable) OB, perhaps a 15-20? 8)
whgoffrn wrote:My 50 runs fine but just as you stated every engine can have issues come up.... The reason for the 2x25 is I can lift a 25hp engine off the transom by myself.... I cannot get that 50hp off ...if I was out ...way out and had an engine failure I could tie a rope to the little 115lb 25 and store it down below and mount the other....its just one more attempt at trying to negate as much bad luck with planning as you can do.... People have 2-3 chart plotters sails extra props....why not a spare engine on board if you truly don't need the 50hp????

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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by 81venture » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:38 am

dlandersson wrote:Make sense to me, I have a spare (Mini-kote). If the 50 is fine, I suggest a smaller (liftable) OB, perhaps a 15-20? 8)
whgoffrn wrote:My 50 runs fine but just as you stated every engine can have issues come up.... The reason for the 2x25 is I can lift a 25hp engine off the transom by myself.... I cannot get that 50hp off ...if I was out ...way out and had an engine failure I could tie a rope to the little 115lb 25 and store it down below and mount the other....its just one more attempt at trying to negate as much bad luck with planning as you can do.... People have 2-3 chart plotters sails extra props....why not a spare engine on board if you truly don't need the 50hp????

I am also doing the same thing... Working on Mods for a one day when we can get away cruise to Bahamas... I also have thought about the redundancy factor of two motors

toting TWO 25 hp motors (as you stated store one below?? where?) sounds like a giant PITA.

Why not keep your 50, and as I have done mount a kicker bracket? I have an 8hp Tohatsu Long Shaft (from my Vn23) mounted on it... have already lake tested the setup and can get decent hull speed with the 8hp. Drop the two rudders and just motor on, no lifting. If I do have an engine failure it takes a few seconds to dump the 2 stroke oil in the gas tank, give her a shake, and fire up the tohatsu.

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Seapup
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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by Seapup » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:35 am

1. to attempt to prevent demasting I plan to double up on stays 2 back stays 2 front side stays 1+ on sizes
Dismasting... Are you planning on flipping full 360s with the mast underwater or just running into things? The stock rig in good shape will not break from wind alone. Correctly replace the rigging with new stock rigging and upgrade the sails instead of doubling the standing rigging. Doubling the rigging gives the same false illusion of safety that a large motor does.
2. engine failures....im HIGHLY considering selling the 50 and buying two 2 stroke 25hp long shafts....
Almost every mono sailboat out there actually "doing it" has one motor...

Two motors - Actual safety or false security pulling you in over your head and into trouble again?

The spare kicker on a mac is a unique concept that has proven successful. The Pardeys said over and over they sailed with no motor so they wouldn't put themselves in danger without an exit plan to start with. Practical, no, but valuable advice?

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Tomfoolery
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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by Tomfoolery » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:05 am

Seapup wrote:
1. to attempt to prevent demasting I plan to double up on stays 2 back stays 2 front side stays 1+ on sizes
Dismasting... Are you planning on flipping full 360s with the mast underwater or just running into things? The stock rig in good shape will not break from wind alone. Correctly replace the rigging with new stock rigging and upgrade the sails instead of doubling the standing rigging. Doubling the rigging gives the same false illusion of safety that a large motor does.
By coincidence, I got on just now to give the same answer to this question. A new stock rig is all you need.

BWY has an 'upgraded' forestay option, which is 5/32" instead of the stock 1/8", by the way. When I ordered my replacement forestay last year, they offered the 5/32", but I declined. They shipped me the heavier one anyway, which now that I have it, I'm not complaining, mostly because the little pigtail above the furler takes a bit of a beating when I lay the mast down and it tries to bend as the furler and sail pull down on it. Should have a toggle up there, but that won't stop the wire rope from bending where it enters the furler.

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dlandersson
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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by dlandersson » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:34 am

Slick 8)
81venture wrote: Why not keep your 50, and as I have done mount a kicker bracket? I have an 8hp Tohatsu Long Shaft (from my Vn23) mounted on it... have already lake tested the setup and can get decent hull speed with the 8hp. Drop the two rudders and just motor on, no lifting. If I do have an engine failure it takes a few seconds to dump the 2 stroke oil in the gas tank, give her a shake, and fire up the tohatsu.

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dlandersson
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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by dlandersson » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:36 am

Thank you. I will upgrade to this when it's time 8)
Tomfoolery wrote:BWY has an 'upgraded' forestay option, which is 5/32" instead of the stock 1/8", by the way. When I ordered my replacement forestay last year, they offered the 5/32", but I declined. They shipped me the heavier one anyway, which now that I have it, I'm not complaining, mostly because the little pigtail above the furler takes a bit of a beating when I lay the mast down and it tries to bend as the furler and sail pull down on it. Should have a toggle up there, but that won't stop the wire rope from bending where it enters the furler.

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grady
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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by grady » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:49 am

1 Demasting is rare on normal sail boats. Just do a good inspection on rigging since most of our mast go up and down a lot. Replace any kinked stays especially if it is next to a crimp. Possibly replace every 10 to 15 years. Mast failures are associated with prior damage, wear, corrosion.

2 No recommendation since I have an S model. My thought was if engine goes out sails are my back up.

3 Yes a good drogue is always good to have! Even if your rudders are good it can improve safety of you get caught in bad weather.

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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by whgoffrn » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:09 am

Call it paranoia or that I like extra added security....an extra engine or triple back stays does not mean I'd feel fine going out in 10-12s ....just as an epirb doesn't give me the peace of mind to do a transpac....its just added precautions to do the normal sailing I'd do without....keep in mind you're talking to a person who had triples on his flats boat....why triples? I had two engine failures once and that 3rd engine is what got me home....now that doesn't mean I was off trolling for dolphin in the stream in my 14 ft johnsen I was in 1 foot of water on a calm day .... But that's just who I am... I would rather have 3 5hp engines on the back than one 15.. And it has paid out once already .....

As far as an 8hp kicker that may also be an option... I didn't realize an 8 could push a Mac to hull speed.... Basically what I'm looking for is a spare that can still push the Mac to hullspeed BUT in semi snotty conditions IF got unlucky and got caught out in it and then had engine failure .... I usually drop sails at 25+kts winds and motor with balast in.... Would an 8hp push a Mac in those conditions???????

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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by whgoffrn » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:15 am

FYI if wind is higher than that to where motoring isn't an option say 40-50kts the plan is for drogue tied with guidelines to all 4 stanchions and cleats off stern to distribute the pull from the drogue evenly so it doesn't rip it off ....and just wait it out going downwond bare poles....but as stated above having a drogue and a wire bridle hooked to the stern cleats and rails isn't going to give me the confidence to go crossing oceans but its one more precaution for when you made and the weatherman made a mistake

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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by yukonbob » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:33 pm

Personally id keep the 50 and have and 8 or smaller on a bracket or tender for calm day emergency powering and docking. If its inclement weather you have sails that can power the boat better and safer than a single smaller engine (up waves, reducing pitching and yawing) Sail as close as you feel conformable to safe anchorage and dock/anchor with your spare OB. If the weather turns nastier do as you plan and deploy the drogue, a small patch of headsail and wait it out. (The drogue also helps reduce strain on the rudders and steering). I know your plan is to power but you really should consider sailing. I would kill to be able to have a 50 mile long stretch of open waters.

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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by whgoffrn » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:04 pm

I have a 10ft inflatable dinghy with a 5hp but mostly use that to go back and forth to beach or drop a stern anchor if the waves are coming from different angle than wind but I can't imagine it being strong enough to push into any waves or wind???? Not sure what the lower limit on engine hp isvneeded to push through bad weather

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yukonbob
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Re: please cretique my possible future mods

Post by yukonbob » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:38 pm

whgoffrn wrote:I have a 10ft inflatable dinghy with a 5hp but mostly use that to go back and forth to beach or drop a stern anchor if the waves are coming from different angle than wind but I can't imagine it being strong enough to push into any waves or wind???? Not sure what the lower limit on engine hp isvneeded to push through bad weather
I would think 25 would be good enough in a SCA to keep course downwind or just off-wind but not beating windward with waves, current on a boat loaded for such a trip. I'd be using the next year, year and a half to do some smaller roundtrip sails. Pick a destination (i.e. inland lake protected waters) and sail round trip using your motor only to dock / anchor or not at all. This will give you huge confidence and less worry about your outboard. Also plan to do a few night passages under motor/sail, preference to leave ungodly early and watch the sun rise is just awesome, but coming into an anchorage in the dark is a valuable skillset to learn.

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