Bottom painting while on the trailer

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seacatcapt
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Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by seacatcapt »

Before we put the :macm: back in a slip for a season, I'm going to epoxy seal and anti-foul the bottom. While there are numerous previous discussions on bottom painting and paints, I haven't seen any pros/cons of doing the painting while the boat is sitting directly on the trailer. Other that the obvious low ground clearance and bunk locations, I would greatly appreciate any comments/encouragements/warnings on this approach before I find myself staring up at the hull. :) BTW, I'm planning on getting to the bunk spots by completing the bulk of the job to dryness, launching the boat slightly to back the boat off by 10 or so inches (exposing the bunk spots), securing the boat back on the trailer, and finishing the painting of the bunk spots. Other than paint in the face, is there something I should know???
Thanks, Randy
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bcstein
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by bcstein »

I did the same thing at the beginning of last season. I did not have any problems other than several spots of paint on my clothes and myself. I am not as experienced as some of the others on here so, maybe one of them will offer up some ideas. :)
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by Just Nuisance »

Hi Seacatcapt (hope I got that right)
I to am going to do the same as you stated. Im planning on going to the local rental to see if there are any tripod jackstands available. Failing that, I will probably build something. Let me (us) know how it goes. I am planning to start next week.

Regards

Mike
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Sumner
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by Sumner »

seacatcapt wrote:........... I'm going to epoxy seal and anti-foul the bottom. .....
When you say "epoxy seal" I read that to mean a barrier coat? If that is right I don't see how you are going to do it the way you described as it would normally take 2 days to put the barrier coats on and the bottom paint.

Does the boat have no barrier coat or bottom paint on it now? If so have you read the tech sheets for de-waxing/degreasing, sanding, windows between coats and such?

I would maybe take a different approach if I wanted to do it completely on the trailer as I would think once you can float the boat backwards the area under the rear bunk would be in the water.

First I would paint the barrier and bottom coat in 3-4 feet under the stern and another place forward of the forward bunk. Then I'd make a simple stand.....

Image

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... ide-3.html

....and put the stern on it (using the trailer to do it). Then .......

Image

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... ide-3.html

....put a jack under the area forward of the forward bunk and jack it up off the forward bunk to the point the boat would be just a small ways off of both bunks (if needed let the air out of the tires) I would keep the trailer as close to the bottom of the boat as possible as a safety measure and blocks under the front, by the jack just in case the jack failed. Now paint the rest of the hull.

Before raising it you should de-wax and sand as much of the bottom as you can reach and do the bunk areas only after you have the boat above them. Be darn careful and when doing the areas above the bunks move some blocks around between the bunk and the boat, so if the worst happened your hand would not be trapped there.

If you are just putting on bottom paint and no barrier paint things would be easier.

Good luck and be careful, careful and careful, that boat could hurt you bad or kill you,

Sum

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seacatcapt
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by seacatcapt »

Sum,
Yes, the "epoxy seal" is the barrier coat. I'm planning on 4 coats of Interprotect 2000E, followed by at least two coats of Micron Extra. I'm planning on doing the entire bottom at first (with the exception of the three bunks), then when that is all finished and dry, move the boat back on the trailer and do the three now exposed bunk areas (barrier and anti-fouling). Due to the dangers you mention in your link on using jacks, that's my main motivation for doing the job on the trailer.
-Randy
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by AJ »

I re coated my anti foul with 2 coats (6 litres of International Longlife) while on the trailer last winter. It's very straightforward and, as long as you are sensible, safe. The safety principles are the same as working under a car - never rely on jacks and use axle stands of appropriate size (at least 2 at the stern). You must never place any part of your body in a situation where it would be crushed if the boat fell back on the trailer.

1. Jack up the stern (you need a jack with enough extension to raise the stern to a point where you can fit a small roller between the hull and the middle and rear bunks- my 8 tonne hydraulic jack does it - about 12 inches. You can also use the bow jockey wheel winder to adjust the angle of the trailer)

2. Insert two axle stands chocked with timber to protect the hull and lower jack so that the stands take the boats weight.

The steeply raked bow bunk prevents too much lateral movement while doing this but I suggest not doing it in an exposed location on a windy day just in case.

3. Firmly rock the boat by hand once it's on the stands to ensure that it is secure before commencing work.

4. Do your sanding/painting - using hand sanders and rollers with extension handles means there is little need to get under the boat. (Don't forget to wear protective clothing, gloves and a respirator with the appropriate filter when using this stuff lest you start seeing purple elephants!)

5. Lower boat back on trailer once the paint has dried so that you can get at the bits covered by the axle stands.

To get under the bow bunk wind up the jockey wheel, place an axle stand under the hull behind the bunk and lower trailer to expose the hull.

The whole process of jacking and lowering only takes minutes once you get the hang of it which means you can easily wetsand and roll on coats to the whole hull in one go per coat.

The end result of a few hours work was a nice new bottom at a fraction of the cost of getting the boatyard to do it.

An advantage of the Mac is it's double hull and big hollow stringers which provide great linear strength. It happily sits on the tip of it's nose and tail without the risk of bending in the middle. This can happen to other boats as a friend found out when the marina tried to lift the stern of his 25 foot motor cruiser on the hard with a forklift. The thing bent in the middle and was written off!
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by puggsy »

If you use 'soft' ablative anti-fouling paint, the boat HAS to go back in the water as soon as it is dry...usually 6-12 hours...
Otherwise, the paint will dry out too much and crack, which will let growth take hold...

If you use 'hard' antifouling, as used on high speed hulls, no problem...bung it on and store the boat...
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Sumner
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by Sumner »

puggsy wrote:If you use 'soft' ablative anti-fouling paint, the boat HAS to go back in the water as soon as it is dry...usually 6-12 hours...
Puggsy I think you will find that isn't true for all ablative paints now. There are a number that are specifically designed for trailered boats that will be out of the water long periods of time, including the time after painting until they go in the water. Some are also designed to be a little 'harder' so that they don't rub off as much on the bunks.

Good luck Randy. We have bought barrier paint and bottom paint and I have to do the job myself later this summer before we go to Florida,

Sum

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Laika 26X
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by Laika 26X »

Puggsy I think you will find that isn't true for all ablative paints now
True!

I just replaced my Interlux Micron CSC with Petit Hydrocoat Ablative Antifouling Bottom Paint. Made for Trailer Sailors.

Got a gallon for $99 US @ Defender. Micron was over $167 US

This choice was not only based on price, but a review in "Practical Sailor".

"Sub" Ed
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by Terry »

seacatcapt wrote:Sum,
Yes, the "epoxy seal" is the barrier coat. I'm planning on 4 coats of Interprotect 2000E, followed by at least two coats of Micron Extra. I'm planning on doing the entire bottom at first (with the exception of the three bunks), then when that is all finished and dry, move the boat back on the trailer and do the three now exposed bunk areas (barrier and anti-fouling). Due to the dangers you mention in your link on using jacks, that's my main motivation for doing the job on the trailer.
-Randy
OK Seacatapt, scrap the idea of floating the boat and moving it back, do it all in the driveway and make a set of wooden stands. I used two 5 X 5 posts about 2' high at the stern and put braces on them both directions then used a car jack stand at the bow. You can drop the tongue of the trailer right down on the ground to raise the stern then put the posts under the stern then jack the tongue up high enough to put the jack stand under then lower the trailer tongue. You should be able to get the boat about 8" above the bunks. Keep the trailer under the boat while you work on a creeper for safety and you should be OK. I slapped on four heavy coats and had a bit left over but in hindsight I could have got five coats if I went a bit thiner.
Special Note:
After the fourth or last coat of epoxy you do not let it dry completely but rather wait until it is just a bit tacky to the touch, not so much to leave paint on your finger but just enough to leave a finger print, then you quickly apply the first coat of anti-fouling so that it adheres well to the tacky barrier coat. You cannot do this if you wait until it dries then float it in the water, you must work fast and efficiently in the driveway. You also must save a bit of paint for where you have the stands to do later. If you buy the 4 litre (gallon) pail of antifouling you should also get an extra 1 litre (quart) and you will have enough for three full coats, any extra can be applied along the water line where the most growth happens. I just did mine last spring 2009 and I plan to add another application this spring 2010 so that I can leave it for three years. Happy painting, it is a big long job, but hang in there and it will be worth it.

One more thing,
I used interlux for both barrier and anti-fouling, the Micron CSC ablative is the one for trailer sailors, you can let it dry for months and it only starts working again when imersed in the water. It says so on the pamphlet and I have used it this way. Pugsy is wrong.
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Sumner
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by Sumner »

Here is a suggestion. I bought two gallons of bottom paint as we will need more in the future. I got one gallon of black and one gallon of the dark blue. On our S one gallon should give you 2 coats. I'm going to put on two coats of the black and then one coat of the dark blue as that is the color we want for a total of 3 coats over the barrier "tuff stuff".

Now down the road when the paint wears back into the black I can see that it is wearing and re-apply blue only to those areas that need it.

I'm using the SeaHawk Tuff Stuff for the barrier paint....

http://www.bottompaintstore.com/Tuff-St ... GL-KIT.htm

.....and SeaHawk Cukote Biocide Plus Self-Polishing Bottom Paint ....

http://www.bottompaintstore.com/Cukote- ... 500-GL.htm

...for the bottom paint. It is suppose to be pretty good for growth and slime.
c ya,

Sum


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LOUIS B HOLUB
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by LOUIS B HOLUB »

Avoid the MISTAKE I encountered with my Mac-X. This is what I learned (the hard way).

My first bottom job was done by a "novice" at a boat dealer, and the paint began to peel after 6 months in our marina slip. I later discovered that the bottom wasnt sanded first, then "de-waxed", for good adhesion.

Anyway, I redid the entire bottom job myself, at home, removing all the old paint. Amazingly, the old paint scraped off fairly easy. Then, I lightly resanded the bottom for better adhesision using a cheap $15.00 WalMart hand held "jitterbug" sander. Then, I alcohol wiped-cleaned the entire bottom for de-waxing before applying the paint. This was 2 years ago, and the bottom paint continues to look good, and with good adhesion.
The prep., and actual paint application, wasnt that difficult.
Good luck.
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

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seacatcapt
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by seacatcapt »

Thank you all for your comments. You guys make this site such a tremendous resource for all of us Mac sailors. I'll report on how the painting goes. And in memory of Mark Twain, who died 100 years ago on April 21, if anyone would like to have some really great fun .... :wink:
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Sumner
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Re: Bottom painting while on the trailer

Post by Sumner »

LOUIS B HOLUB wrote:Avoid the MISTAKE I encountered with my Mac-X. This is what I learned (the hard way).

My first bottom job was done by a "novice" at a boat dealer, and the paint began to peel after 6 months in our marina slip. I later discovered that the bottom wasn't sanded first, then "de-waxed", for good adhesion.......
Louis sorry to hear about the problems and that the new paint job has held up, but you really should use a 'commercial de-greaser/de-waxer', before sanding. Sanding can just move the wax if there is any and/or grease down into the hull.

Get the hull good and clean and de-waxed before the sanding step. This applies any time you are sanding. Not de-waxing first on say a car body will give you fish eyes in the final paint job from the wax. I always clean before sanding. Then blow the area off after sanding with air and then de-wax and de-grease again before paint.

c ya,

Sum

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