hard dodger

A forum for discussing boat or trailer repairs or modifications that you have made or are considering.
Wayne nicol
Captain
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:21 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Queen CHarlotte Islands,B.C.---------------- lightning white 2012 26M "Merrylegs"

hard dodger

Post by Wayne nicol »

hi all, i have just secured a heated workshop to put my boat in, and will be starting on my plan to build a hard dodger.
construction- fiberglass and laminated glass for windows.
i have lots of experience with plugs and molds- having done this commercially,(but in no way do i know everything- so all input is appreciated.)

however my question is, not currently having a bimini or enclosure- i would really like to build the dodger to accommodate that as an add on, when i can get it!
and when i do it will probably be a BWY one.
so even though i will be building roughly to the sizes of the canvas dodger, what do i need to do around the stern side of the dodger, in order to affix it to the bimini/enclosure.

the dodger will have two solid / folding doors
and it will be the narrow dodger, as i like the deck room to get around the dodger.
many thanks
wayne
User avatar
March
Captain
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 7:54 am
Location: Iowa, MacGregor 26X, Evinrude E-TEC 50 HP

Re: hard dodger

Post by March »

I admire your determination and dedication, and you have certainly considered the downsides of building a pilot house on top of the open cockpit: your ability to keep an eye on the main sail (let alone man it properly from the cockpit) will be restricted by the rigid roof. You will no longer be able to leap nimbly onto the top of the boat from the cockpit--you will have to go every time through the cabin and the forehatch, crawl out to set anchors and untangle the furler. You're exchanging a free-wheeling open cockpit for a restrictive giant soapbox that would alter the very feel of sailing freely. The additional weight and the novel geometry of the enclosed, rigid cockpit is likely to affect the sailing capabilities, I would venture to guess. But if you plan on mostly motoring around, that might not be a major concern. I would personally not do it, but that's only me.

It would be like exchanging a convertible for a claustrophobic Aztec.

I like the dowsar in place only when we're docked or at anchor. While sailing, I often take the bimini all the way down while sailing (if the sun beating down on us is not a major problem) because I like the openness of the cockpit. Grilling in the back is always a problem with the dowsar on, and I would think that a rigid enclosure ain't going to make it any easier. But if that's what you want, go for it!
Wayne nicol
Captain
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:21 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Queen CHarlotte Islands,B.C.---------------- lightning white 2012 26M "Merrylegs"

Re: hard dodger

Post by Wayne nicol »

hi March,
thanks for the reply.
not planning on building a huge pilothouse, just replacing the canvas dodger ( over the hatch/companionway- not over the whole cockpit) with a hard dodger, for a bunch of reasons:
1.i use the dodger all the time- our climate ( very wet and rainy at times,.we live in acoastal rain forest up here) dictates that we need that cover over the hatchway at all times, it also gives some weather protection to the helmsman, when underway in inclement weather.
2. also with the hard dodger i can use proper laminated glass in the windows, and in turn improve visibility from the helm- we have a lot of deadheads in the water around here- so we need to really be on the lookout all the time, and I find the vinyl windows, just not clear and safe enough.
3. i will keep the dimensions pretty much the same- as the existing canvas dodger, so there will still be lots of side deck to get around, as it is with the current canvas dodger.
4. i want better open and closing, proper companionway doors, for quick and easy, dry access to below- as apposed to the companionway washboard and canvas zippers etc- that we currently use
5.i am also in the process of changing the entire sail plan and sail rig- so the top of the dodger- will have a boom gallows and mast crutch built into it, for the soon to be shortened mast, that will not extend into the cockpit anymore- so that i can motor with the mast down, but still have the cockpit open and uncluttered, and not leave the the sail rig at home. But also for the boom to settle into, so that it can be secured quickly and safely, and not wave around!!

we love to sail, but sometimes we just want to get out on the water quickly, on a long summer evening, and go fishing for a few hours! And not be encumbered with all the set up and take down of the sail rig, but don't want to leave it at home, as that's our spare motor
Many of our long trips are in excess of a week, but our fishing trips are often just evenings or overnightsers

cheers
thanks
wayne
paul I
First Officer
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:43 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Niagara Falls, NY 2000 26X w/Honda BF50 "NoneShallPass"

Re: hard dodger

Post by paul I »

I hear you regarding the vinyl windows. This sounds like a very interesting project.

I am trying to imagine how much higher the storage/trailering position of the mast will be if you move the mast crutch forward and to a height needed for a dodger.

Also, if you are going to model the installation after the dimensions of the BWY narrow dodger, your probably going to need some kind of custom attachment scheme anyway if you are going to try and mate it to the full width BWY enclosure? It is made to use with the wide dodger they offer, no?
User avatar
Spector
First Officer
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:53 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Calgary AB, 98 26X 'Cenoté' 2002 Yamaha 60 HP
Contact:

Re: hard dodger

Post by Spector »

The bimini -dodger connector uses a zipper. You might think about having a custom piece of sunbrella made that snaps to the hard dodger and gives you the zipper for the connector piece. This could be added at any time later
Wayne nicol
Captain
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:21 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Queen CHarlotte Islands,B.C.---------------- lightning white 2012 26M "Merrylegs"

Re: hard dodger

Post by Wayne nicol »

spector, thats what i was looking for, how the two match up, i guess the press studs and the sunbrella piece with the zippers will be the answer
Thanks Paul, the overall height will probably be lower, as the dodger is maybe the same height as the crutch, maybe slightly higher- never looked at it in comparison, but the key here is the mast will terminate at the back of the dodger, with the new sail rig- so it will not extend into the cockpit, or extend over the back, where the mast actually gains height and distance over the stern.

i am changing the main to a gaff rig, with a detachable extension( a carbon mast that will slip into the top of the mast- to bring to give the mast the extra length needed), that goes above the top spar- that will provide for the lifting rigging and possibly a smaller topsail, for light air sailing.
overall there will be the same sail area and a bit more!
with the addition of the cutter rig, it will have improved light air performance.
i will be rerigging as Mastreb did, with dyneema rigging.
Y.B.Normal
First Officer
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:55 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: NE Wisconsin

Re: hard dodger

Post by Y.B.Normal »

Wayne,

How are you going to change the mast to allow it to be unstepped/stepped?
On my 26M, I have to have the companionway hatch closed so the mast can clear the leading edge of it when I drop the mast.
Will the mast have a hinge arraingement (raised mast step) to allow the mast to clear the new structure?
Wayne nicol
Captain
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:21 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Queen CHarlotte Islands,B.C.---------------- lightning white 2012 26M "Merrylegs"

Re: hard dodger

Post by Wayne nicol »

YB,
the ali mast is going to be about 20'- going to cut mine down!
then there will be a foam cored carbon mast extension-that i will build so that it will slide inside the top of the mast, with close fit tolerances .- extending about 8' beyond the mast( cant remember all my measurements exactly- been a little while since i did all the drawings)
shrouds will run from the top of the ali mast- the carbon mast will be free standing.
head sails will run to the top of the ali mast, but spinnaker will run to top of carbon mast.
the carbon mast will only be there to hoist the gaff spar, and to support the spinnaker, and to fly a topsail, sometimes - so the real load will only be applied during light air sailing.

at the step, i am going to build a tabernacle, that will be the height of the current boom- about 18' if i recall- so that way i can reduce the mast a further 18" but still keep the full length- make sense?

procedure:
1.top end of ali mast is at back of dodger, insert carbon mast and all relevant lines
2. then hoist as regular, roll mast back on crutch- on top of dodger- yea there will be more leverage , as the crutch is closer to the step- insert mast step into hinge, on tabernacle- as per the original system- and hoist using MRS
3.continue rigging

sure it is a little bit of extra hassle- with the addition of the carbon mast extension, but i think the benefits outweigh the disadvantages
1. a bigger sail plan(slightly) with a lower center of effort, and in light airs i can increase the sail area a bit more with a top sail
2.no mast over the cockpit- -so i now can leave the mast in the down position for motoring and fishing, and this will also reduce on trailer storage space.
i can now motor and not be forced to leave the sail rig at home. and when we want to go fishing for a few hours, i can launch like a motor boat- no rigging time, and get out there- but if something happens , and i need to sail- the option is there- which is not available with a "mac trawler".
on weekends etc , we will just hoist the rig - as we love to sail!!!

3.there will be an extra carbon mast extension , and the carbon gaff top spar- but they will be easy to store on deck.

the tabernacle will also support the radar mount - forward of the mast, and the radio antennae.
moving the radio antennae from the top of the mast to lower down, since i did a radio operators course- i was exposed to a few facts and truths from the coastguard.
i did think of having the boom mount on the tabernacle- but that will remove the rotating mast feature, and would only gain me a few inches- so not really worth the hassle.

thanks
wayne
paul I
First Officer
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:43 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Niagara Falls, NY 2000 26X w/Honda BF50 "NoneShallPass"

Re: hard dodger

Post by paul I »

This all sounds very ambitious. Be sure to post some pics when its done.
Wayne nicol
Captain
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:21 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Queen CHarlotte Islands,B.C.---------------- lightning white 2012 26M "Merrylegs"

Re: hard dodger

Post by Wayne nicol »

yea, you are right. it is a heap of work. thats why its taken me so long to get going with it, i have been planning and talking about it for a year now- but when faced with these big projects, i like to take my time, and look at all aspects, as i will only have one shot at it!
thanks- appreciate all the input, no matter how critical it is, it just adds different angles and perspectives!!
thanks
wayne
User avatar
Spector
First Officer
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:53 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Calgary AB, 98 26X 'Cenoté' 2002 Yamaha 60 HP
Contact:

Re: hard dodger

Post by Spector »

Have you had a look at these? I've seen a Mac with one on. Slick

http://www.tartarooga.com/
Wayne nicol
Captain
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:21 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Queen CHarlotte Islands,B.C.---------------- lightning white 2012 26M "Merrylegs"

Re: hard dodger

Post by Wayne nicol »

thanks for the link spec.
very snazzy looking-i wonder if they are they glass windows or some type of UHI acrylic.
i would really like to use a proper laminated glass suitable for marine use.
i did send them a contact request.

oh yea, one thing i forgot, the traveller will go on the roof top of the dodger- that will open things up nicely
thanks
cheers
wayne
User avatar
dlandersson
Admiral
Posts: 4531
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:00 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Michigan City

Re: hard dodger

Post by dlandersson »

Neat idea. 8)
Wayne nicol wrote:...the traveller will go on the roof top of the dodger- that will open things up nicely
thanks
cheers
wayne
User avatar
Russ
Admiral
Posts: 7543
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:01 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Bozeman, Montana "Luna Azul" 2008 M 70hp Suzi

Re: hard dodger

Post by Russ »

Seems like a lot of work that some vinyl cleaner or new windows couldn't solve. But hey, I love folks with talent to fabricate stuff. Post some photos when you have something going.
Wayne nicol
Captain
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:21 am
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Queen CHarlotte Islands,B.C.---------------- lightning white 2012 26M "Merrylegs"

Re: hard dodger

Post by Wayne nicol »

the vinyl is brand new- but its just not that clear- anyway its the excuse i am using with the boss to justify this mod :)
i get the shop in march- so thats now- and hopefully, working weekends and evenings 4 to 6 weeks for the dodger- the sail rig is going to take a little longer- as i have some stainless fabricating to do for the tabernacle and the bowsprit!
and i have to finish my davitt mod first, that i have started. 8)

so maybe i will just build the dodger the way i want, and then modify the enclosure to match

cheers
wayne
Post Reply