Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

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DrV
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Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by DrV » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:55 pm

I am sailing in Turkey now, where it is not easy at all to buy any rigging for :macm: . :( I have decided that it is time to get ready for summer, so in few days I am flying to USA, to buy some items and to bring them with me.

I have started from brosing the BWY site, looking for 'must have' items for next sailing season for my :macm: . I would greatly appreciate any advice from more experienced sailors. If you have any experience with the items below - let me know, please. I have spent few hours searching through the fora, but still more questions then answers. And time for ordering the items is running out. (Few days ago I didn't even know that I would go to US that soon.) Any info is welcome.

1. Single Line Reefing - is it really as useful as described? Can I install it on my :macm: (rotating must there!) ?
Sometimes I sail single-handed so I need every device that makes sailing easier and safer. If there's no need to go to mast for reefing, and it WORKS, then it is a must have item for me.

2. Halyards Aft Kit ??? Same question - does it really make life easier? Does it work with 's rotating mast?

3. Boom Vang Kit. Just tell me, will I see any better sailing performance with it (never tried that kit, never even saw one)

4. "Boomkicker" Solid Boom Vang ? The BWY site says it doesn't really work for M, due to rotating mast. However, at our http://macgregorsailors.com/catalog/pag ... /index.php some similar item is recommended for :macm: . I consider installing a boom topping lift, but the boomkicker looks like better item to have and easier to use!
However, there is another issue. How long are these "kickers"? I am coming to US to buy some items for my and to hand-carry to Turkey where I sail! If that items are oversized and I can't take them to the plane, then the topping lift is my only choice.

5. MAINSAIL CONVERSIONS ?
Actually, it isn't THAT hard for me to pull the line and feed the bolt rope to the slot with another hand, when raising the sail... In case it is the only advantage of that kit - should I save 200+ bucks?

6. Wind Indicator and Stand Off Bracket ? Would it improve my performance as helmsman? Right now I take a look at the flag behind me to see the direction of wind... Classical windex wind indicator - doesn't work for rotating mast, does it?

7. One of my rudders got hit when going out of river to the sea (there is some shallow place there!), so will I see better helm performance in case I change both rudders to ones from IDA/Ruddercraft? (One original rudder is 250 dollars, two from ruddercraft are no less than 725!)
I have searched the Fora here, googled the internet - and all I could find is "yes, rudders got better somewhat".


I am sorry to ask that many questions, but now I am located outside of US, where it is hard to get these items. Found some cheaper air tickets, and I am coming to US to buy these items in few days, so I hope to make RIGHT orders. THANK YOU
Any advice appreciated!

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u12fly
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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by u12fly » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:26 pm

I'm going to hit a few things on your list but not all:

For me, #1 thing to do is all lines AFT to the cockpit. Best thing for safety and ease of sailing. With that you really want to convert your sail to use sail slugs (or slides) instead of feeding the bolt rope up the mast.

I put on the single line reefing kit... I don't like it. I plan on changing it to a dual line reefing kit. The single line is too much rope and friction.

Yes on the Boom Vang... it's an easy mode. No on the boom kicker, it "can" interfere with the mast rotation... just use a simple toping lift. BWY sells the kit which is nothing more the line and some clips. All the above mods listed work fine with the Rotating Mast.

Chris.

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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by DrV » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:59 am

Thank you, Chris!
u12fly wrote:I'm going to hit a few things on your list but not all:
For me, #1 thing to do is all lines AFT to the cockpit.
Best thing for safety and ease of sailing. With that you really want to convert your sail to use sail slugs (or slides) instead of
feeding the bolt rope up the mast.

Sure. What exactly items do I have to buy for that? Time is running out, I am getting desperate. :?

It looks that I need to order:
1) the "Mainsail Slides only , $99.00" item (as the "Intermediate reef" is something that I don't need).
2) Halyards Aft Kit
3) reefing system/kit
Correct?
I put on the single line reefing kit... I don't like it. I plan on changing it to a dual line reefing kit.
The single line is too much rope and friction.
Not from BWY? Their shop has only single line as far as I can see. Actually, it looks that for 89 dollars I get 3 pcs of halyards,
and rope/line + manual. Right? If bought separately, it is 35-45 for 3 pcs of blocks , plus long line (around 25 maybe?), another 25 bucks for the
convenience of manual (do they have GOOD manual?). Correct? OK, I can afford this. ;)
However if you know where to buy dual line reefing kit - give me a hint.

So far I have found only harken (http://www.harken.com/productcategory.aspx?taxid=1562), but it is single line, too.
And WAY more expensive.

Anyway, I don't think I would get anything MUCH better for under $100...
So, unless there is GOOD dual-line system for under $250 max $300, I think I buy single-line.

Wow, I found Catigale's quote "I have single reeding on my , with the line led to the aft end of the boom. I do end up with spaghetti in the cockpit when reefed but I just do a sheeps head with it and it goes away". :) Is sheeps head the only inconvenience of the single line?
I see that you have mentioned friction... I wonder whether my 220 lbs weight is enough to overfcome it?
Yes on the Boom Vang... it's an easy mode.

Yes, I am convinced now. Looks it is really must have item.
BWY sells the kit which is nothing more the line and some clips.

is it about the 1-line reefing system?
All the above mods listed work fine with the Rotating Mast.
Thanks!!!

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u12fly
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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by u12fly » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:20 am

All those mods are available as "kits" through blue water yachts, I bought mine threw them it is just easier then chasing down parts yourself especially if you are not an expert at all the hardware "thingies" available. :wink: As for the “manuals”, the kits come with a sheet of paper or two with installation instructions, these are all pretty easy to install. On the lines aft to the cockpit, I mounted the pulley blocks at the base of the mast about an inch too far forward, end ended up moving them back later to reduce some of the drag in the lines. Take your time placing them and run rope through them to check all alignments for the ideal location before mounting if possible. 8)

On your sail, it needs to be modified to have the slides added. You will also want to purchase a sail slug stop (BWY sells them) to stop the sail from coming down too far and slipping out of the tract. If you are using the original reefing points with the single line reefing kit, since the reef is larger you end up with a bit “more” spaghetti in the cockpit. The two line reefing kit is not sold by anyone that I know, it is something I plan to do myself. I also do not have the intermediate reefing point.

Chris.

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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by DrV » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:25 pm

Thank you for your time, Chris!

so, I am ordering now (from BWY):

1. single-line reefing kit, as it isn't that expensive - and then I'll see whether I want to upgrade further, or it is OK as is.
2. Boom Vang Kit
3. Halyards Aft Kit (I think I take $199.00 Kit with 3 rope clutches, third one just in case...)
4. "Mainsail Slides only" kit , $99.00
5. sail slug stop (they don't have it on the site, thanks for the advice)

Anything missing?
On the lines aft to the cockpit, I mounted the pulley blocks at the base of the mast about an inch too far forward, end ended up moving them back later to reduce some of the drag in the lines. Take your time placing them and run rope through them to check all alignments for the ideal location before mounting if possible.
If you have a photo of your installation, I'd love to see it!

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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by Tomfoolery » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:51 pm

DrV wrote:5. sail slug stop (they don't have it on the site, thanks for the advice)
It's there. p/n 3447-000, for $9.00. Or use the search term 'sail stop', and leave all the other fields blank.

I also use a long skinny pin through the groove, to keep the sail stop from falling out unexpectedly. The hole was already there, but a pin would still allow the sail slide to sneak through (PO's put it too low).

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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by u12fly » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:08 pm

If you don't have it already, you'll want the toping lift... You may also want the "custom outhaul" kit. It is just a line and block at the end of the boom to make it easier to adjust the load on the foot off the sail, the line that attaches to the clew. The kit replaces the standard pronge cleat with a jam cleat, and it works well with the single line reefing kit. Those are all the kits I put on. I just looked through the MODs which I posted on my boat, but guess I never included any of those - since they were not really my designs. So I don't have any pictures handy. :|

I just snooped the web and found this image on BWY website: (this is the custom outhaul)

Image

Chris.

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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by u12fly » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:18 pm

tkanzler wrote:
DrV wrote:5. sail slug stop (they don't have it on the site, thanks for the advice)
It's there. p/n 3447-000, for $9.00. Or use the search term 'sail stop', and leave all the other fields blank.

I also use a long skinny pin through the groove, to keep the sail stop from falling out unexpectedly. The hole was already there, but a pin would still allow the sail slide to sneak through (PO's put it too low).
DrV...

Use caution :!: :!: I'm not sure what YEAR your boat is :?: If you have a NEWER Mac (2007-current) the above referenced sail stop will not work on your boat. The newer boats with the 3.5" X 4.5" mast use a flat style stop, not the round one. That part number from BWY is 3447-1M3. Other option is you DO have the newer boat is to use a Mast Gate Cover... this allows the slugs to slide past the opeing in the mast and rest lower/closer to the boom.

Chris.

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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by DrV » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:34 pm

Use caution :!: :!: I'm not sure what YEAR your boat is :?: If you have a NEWER Mac (2007-current) the above referenced sail stop will not work on your boat.

Looks I haven't indicated it in my forum set-up. My :macm: is 2011, thanks
The newer boats with the 3.5" X 4.5" mast use a flat style stop, not the round one. That part number from BWY is 3447-1M3. Other option is you DO have the newer boat is to use a Mast Gate Cover... this allows the slugs to slide past the opeing in the mast and rest lower/closer to the boom.
Chris.
Yes, I have a newer boat. Actually, I already got reply from BWY, and they said that I may use "mast track gate" (is it the same item as "Mast Gate Cover" ???). But!!! It is useful only if I have sail slides, and I do not have sail slides, because my mainsail is not travelling with me and I can not send it for upgrade.

Looks I don't have much choice here?

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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by u12fly » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:59 pm

Wow, you really want the sail slides... Here are the advantages, you never have to stand on the deck of the boat to manually feed the sails bolt rope into the slot everytime you raise the mast. When the sail is lowered the slides help the mast to flake back and forth so it is easier to handle then just a waud of cloth on your deck. The sail slides are WAY less friction (you still want to use McLube sailkote) and when you drop the halyard the sail slides down the mast most of the way all on its own.

That said,the mast track cover does nothing, and is really not ussable unless you have slides. It covers up the slot you have in the side of the mast such that the "Cars" will not fall out, instead the will slid further donw the mast. The allows for your lowered sail to pack/wrap nicely away. You never have to disconect it from the main, just slip the cover over it.

I take it you live overseas? I'm sure a local sail shop can install them - it is not that hard... you can just buy the parts. The parts are pretty cheep it is the labor to mod the sail that runs most of the $99 bill. BTW I'm sure you can fold up the sail into a small suitcase. I packed mine in a box about 20X24X12 when I shipped it to BWY to have modified.

Chris.

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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by DrV » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:04 pm

u12fly wrote:Wow, you really want the sail slides... Here are the advantages, you never have to stand on the deck of the boat to manually feed the sails bolt rope into the slot everytime you raise the mast. When the sail is lowered the slides help the mast to flake back and forth so it is easier to handle then just a waud of cloth on your deck. The sail slides are WAY less friction (you still want to use McLube sailkote) and when you drop the halyard the sail slides down the mast most of the way all on its own.

That said,the mast track cover does nothing, and is really not ussable unless you have slides. It covers up the slot you have in the side of the mast such that the "Cars" will not fall out, instead the will slid further donw the mast. The allows for your lowered sail to pack/wrap nicely away. You never have to disconect it from the main, just slip the cover over it. I take it you live overseas?
Yes, I sail in Turkey/Mediterranean.
I'm sure a local sail shop can install them - it is not that hard... you can just buy the parts. The parts are pretty cheep it is the labor to mod the sail that runs most of the $99 bill.
I'll ask BWY to sell the parts to me. I am going to send my sail to repair shop, anyway (in Turkey), hope they can fasten (glue???) it.

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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by seahouse » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:27 pm

Yes, a sail shop will be able to install - stitch, the sail slugs on for you. Before you send the sail away you might want to mark the location on the sail where the open slot is. It would be better to avoid having one of the sail slugs align with the opening in the mast when the sail is up. (I don't know if the instructions with the slugs provide the various dimensions for the opening on the sail).

Then, you will eventually want to install a way of covering the mast opening as mentioned above. There are lots of ways of doing this, here's how I did it on a boat the same year as yours...http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1640
- Brian. :wink:

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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by DrV » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:04 am

Thanks, Brian!
Yes, a sail shop will be able to install - stitch, the sail slugs on for you. Before you send the sail away you might want to mark the location on the sail where the open slot is. It would be better to avoid having one of the sail slugs align with the opening in the mast when the sail is up.
Let's see whether I got it right:
The slug on starboard side of the sail must start near the top of the mast opening for feeding the sail's bolt rope.
Or BOTH on starboard and port sides of the sail?
Then why do you cover that opening/slot in mast with aluminum, like in your link http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1640

Actually, I am sure that I am asking something stupid, because I have never seen the sail slugs, nor do I understand how this all stuff works and why do I need it. :(
Then, you will eventually want to install a way of covering the mast opening as mentioned above. There are lots of ways of doing this, here's how I did it on a boat the same year as yours...http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1640
Sorry to admit that I don't have an idea how this all works. Silly me, I need more photos and explanations. If you cover the 'feeding slot' where we normally feed the mainsail, then where does the mainsail go when you take it down??? :?

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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by Tomfoolery » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:22 am

A google image search for 'sail slugs' turned up . . . . . . . a MacGregorSailors.com thread with pictures. :D

This should explain a lot. http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... f=7&t=8778 The picture, not the thread, as the OP is actually asking about something else in that thread. :?

Image

Be aware that adding slugs will move the sail back along the boom a bit, so a twisted shackle should be used at the tack fitting at the base of the boom to allow it to move back also, so you don't distort the bottom of the sail.

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Re: Choosing rigging for summer - advice needed

Post by DrV » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:16 am

tkanzler wrote:A google image search for 'sail slugs' turned up . . . . . . .
a MacGregorSailors.com thread with pictures. :D
Wow! You have a nice google over there! :) 'Mine' google gives me only links like this http://sailing.about.com/od/boatmainten ... icants.htm
This should explain a lot. http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... f=7&t=8778 The picture, not the thread, as the OP is actually asking about something else in that thread. :?
That explained EVERYTHING. Thanks!
Looks a bit complicated to me, I am not that sure I use it this summer. :?
Be aware that adding slugs will move the sail back along the boom a bit,
less than one inch I guess?
so a twisted shackle should be used at the tack fitting at the base of the boom to allow it to move back also, so you don't distort the bottom of the sail.
Now this is again complicated. Googling doesn't help! Thanks

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